What caused you to know something was wrong?

[Mr. White]

Trying to determine what did and didn't happen in the past is a bit difficult.  Those that aren't fans of Hyles or the IFB movement seem to believe every accusation that has been levied.  Those who are fans of Hyles and the IFB movement don't want to believe any of the accusations.  After all of these years I find myself in the middle.  Do I believe Dr. Hyles was told about Dave's behavior?  Absolutely.  Dis he know this when Dave moved to Texas?  Absolutely.  Do I believe all the Nischik stories?  No.  Do I believe Linda's stories?  Absolutely not.  Currently, I believe Dave Hyles did a tremendous amount of damage.  I believe Jack Schaap did a tremendous amount of damage.  I believe Jack Hyles made some poor staff decisions for the church and college.

Nicely put...this is about where I stand.  I don't know what or when Dr. Hyles knew about David, but if he knew I wonder if he was hoping that David would get his act together.  Not the right thing to do (if that was indeed the case), but I can see that happening.

Schaap was the pastor there for two years while I was there.  I found that what a lot of people were saying from outside of FBC were taken out of context...I was there.  Especially the tithing and finances teaching.  I was never steered toward Kimmel or anyone else...and don't feel particularly sad for people who were duped by him.  He said some crazy things, yes.

I think Jack Hyles' main problem is that he surrounded himself with "yes" men.

Kimmel's influence did not grow till later. Eventually, he taught a 6:00 class on finaces, taught Personal Finance and Financial Counseling at the college and was given an office on State St (If I remember) where he took over all of Schaap's counseling that involved finances. He sponsored several of Schaap's Acts 9:21(Cant remember the exact name of the group) pastors meetings and was given a platform to network with these men.

Hyles' problem in that regard, as stated by several men who knew and worked with him closely, was that he was to insecure to keep men around him. All the good men at FBC and HAC that had differences with him were driven away by insecure anger, and he was left with men much younger than he, who were as you said "yes men". It is painfully obvious the Hyles could not lead and keep men close to him who would be considered his contemporaries.

 

[RAIDER]

Hyles' problem in that regard, as stated by several men who knew and worked with him closely, was that he was to insecure to keep men around him. All the good men at FBC and HAC that had differences with him were driven away by insecure anger, and he was left with men much younger than he, who were as you said "yes men". It is painfully obvious the Hyles could not lead and keep men close to him who would be considered his contemporaries.

I know there had to be some, but can you give names of some of the men who Hyles drove away with "insecure anger"?

 

[bgwilkinson]

The biggest difference between Bro. Hyles and Bro. Schaap is that Bro. Hyles didn't take photos and videos on his iPhone and store them in the iCloud for viewing by anyone that happened to get his password.

So in other words, you had no proof of any wrongdoing of Dr. Hyles that would have caused you to want him remove from pastor?

Not if you accepted and practiced his rules for receiving accusations.

I have often thought he made these up just to protect himself.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Hyles' problem in that regard, as stated by several men who knew and worked with him closely, was that he was to insecure to keep men around him. All the good men at FBC and HAC that had differences with him were driven away by insecure anger, and he was left with men much younger than he, who were as you said "yes men". It is painfully obvious the Hyles could not lead and keep men close to him who would be considered his contemporaries.

I know there had to be some, but can you give names of some of the men who Hyles drove away with "insecure anger"?

One that comes to mind immediately is George Godfrey. For full disclosure, his wife Marilyn taught all my daughters piano so I ended up spending considerable time at his house in Griffith.

He wrote a lengthy letter when he left outlining all the things he thought were wrong. Top on the list was having a secretaries office connected by a private door that would allow the pastor and secretary to have an unsupervised and secret rendezvous. Big no, no.  Bro. Hyles did not see anything wrong with meeting in private with his publication assistant. We now have windows on all office doors so anyone can supervise what is going on within.

Quotes from his letter in Sumner's paper.

"Evangelist George Godfrey, a 16-year-professor at Hyles-Anderson (called by Dr. Hyles in print "a loyal friend, a thoughtful pal and a faithful servant") had for years gone to the alley adjacent First Baptist, put his arms on the wall of the building, cradling his head on his arms, and prayed with tears for his beloved pastor and the fresh anointing of God upon him during that day's ministry. Yet even he had gone eventually to Hyles and begged him, again with tears, to remove the door between the two offices (in his "Open Letter" he gives the testimony of a man in the office after my articles were published, who verified that the door was still there at that time)."

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_preface.php

This was the straw that broke the camels back.

Then there was James Vinyard.

and Max Helton

and Robert Billings

and Wally Beebe

and Jim Wertz

and Bob Gray

that's a start but there are many more, maybe someone else could name one

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

What caused you to know something was wrong?

FFF extremes:
When Dr Hyles purposely painted the infant nurseries with lead based paint and put Dave in charge of training young women.

Wrong? Nothing has ever been wrong at FBCH!
We single handedly keep America from communism...every day!

 

[Walt]

What caused you to know something was wrong?

FFF extremes:
When Dr Hyles purposely painted the infant nurseries with lead based paint and put Dave in charge of training young women.

Wrong? Nothing has ever been wrong at FBCH!
We single handedly keep America from communism...every day!

I assume that this is merely a joke.

 

[Walt]

We went to hear Hyles speak, and the man introducing him referred to Hyles as "God". I thought that Hyles would certainly rebuke the man, but Hyles seemed to love it, as he did the rock-star greeting status.

Sorry.............but I seriously doubt this would EVER happen in a Bible believing church.  Your memory.........of this event seems doubtful also.

Memory is quite good. The man introducing Hyles was trying to make a joke. The previous speaker was, I think, Curtis Hudson, and he went a bit long.  The man introducing Hyles said, as part of his introduction: "How do you tell God that he only has 30 minutes?" and got a laugh from some in the room.  I understood that he was making a joke, but I didn't think it was funny, and I expected a strong rebuke from Hyles, which didn't happen.

As to rock star status, I don't know what else to call it when people were screaming his name, and throwing Reese's Pieces to him.

It did happen.

That would be an example of ........When to get up & walk out.

True.

But, I was there with a church group that had gone there to hear Hyles, and it seemed like no one else was bothered by this bit of humor -- I can hear them say "He was just kidding around, making a joke, and you're taking it the wrong way".

It was peer pressure that kept me there; I respected these people, and thought that they were all spiritually mature, and if they didn't have a problem, and I did, then perhaps the problem was me.

I remembered the incident, and it kept me from being a total fan of Hyles, so it was easier, years later, to believe the accusations when I began to hear and to investigate.

You Know There's a Problem When............... you have t explain that something was a joke.

Possibly, but maybe if people would walk out on this kind of thing, it would help to stop it.  I wish that I had been bold enough to walk out.

 

[Twisted]

What caused you to know something was wrong?

FFF extremes:
When Dr Hyles purposely painted the infant nurseries with lead based paint and put Dave in charge of training young women.

Wrong? Nothing has ever been wrong at FBCH!
We single handedly keep America from communism...every day!

I assume that this is merely a joke.

It is not "merely a joke".  It is....GENIUS!

 

[Walt]

Those that aren't fans of Hyles or the IFB movement seem to believe every accusation that has been levied.  Those who are fans of Hyles and the IFB movement don't want to believe any of the accusations.  After all of these years I find myself in the middle.  Do I believe Dr. Hyles was told about Dave's behavior?  Absolutely.  Dis he know this when Dave moved to Texas?  Absolutely.  Do I believe all the Nischik stories?  No.  Do I believe Linda's stories?  Absolutely not.  Currently, I believe Dave Hyles did a tremendous amount of damage.  I believe Jack Schaap did a tremendous amount of damage.  I believe Jack Hyles made some poor staff decisions for the church and college.

This is, by the way, the problem with those who still have hero-dust in their eyes regarding JH -- "he didn't do anything bad; it was others -- MAYBE he made some bad decisions".

JH himself was the problem; his "preaching" wasn't the Bible - he used verses from the Bible as the props to his motivational talks to win souls, get them to come to church, and to get them baptized, and to obey authority. People could sit under the "preaching" for years and be spiritually immature.

If one obeyed the rules about external stuff, went soul-winning, and never questioned leadership, one was considered spiritual, no matter how carnal that person was. I'm not necessarily knocking this; as one man has said, these are the fruit of holiness, not the essence of it. But this is the fault of JH.

In practice, Hyles taught that winning souls covered sin. This was JH's teaching.

There was a cult-like requirement to be loyal to Hyles. This isn't what others did or taught; JH taught that this was good and right.

For the record, I don't believe every accusation made against him. I have always maintained that there is no proof of adultery; however, there is plenty of proof that his relationship with JN was wrong.

 

[Gladstone]

I first knew something was wrong when I attended a youth activity prepping for Pastor?s School that involved  taking the wrappers off of diet Dr. Peppers and replacing  them with wrappers saying Diet Dr. Hyles.

That should tell you enough.

That was a bad year. For a couple of days, that?s all they had to drink until the delegates complained. Then they sent the leftovers out to the college . I think those sodas were our generations choir tapes. Those awful ones that they passed out at YC because they couldn?t sell them.

 

[Gladstone]

Best post!!!

What caused you to know something was wrong?

FFF extremes:
When Dr Hyles purposely painted the infant nurseries with lead based paint and put Dave in charge of training young women.

Wrong? Nothing has ever been wrong at FBCH!
We single handedly keep America from communism...every day!

I assume that this is merely a joke.

It is not "merely a joke".  It is....GENIUS!