What Must I Do to be Saved? John R. Rice

Can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He, from eternity, unconditionally determined not to save, and is, in the words of Calvin, “pleased to exclude” and “doom to destruction”?
You are the one who adamantly desires to focus upon such things, not me. I will stick to what is clearly written in the scriptures and what the Lord has commanded of me. God commands all men to repentance and commands his children to proclaim the Gospel. In the end, God is holy and just and there will not be a single man who will be able to stand before God making the excuse that they didn't believe because God did not elect them!
 
You are the one who adamantly desires to focus upon such things, not me. I will stick to what is clearly written in the scriptures and what the Lord has commanded of me. God commands all men to repentance and commands his children to proclaim the Gospel. In the end, God is holy and just and there will not be a single man who will be able to stand before God making the excuse that they didn't believe because God did not elect them!
So, in other words, “that question hurts my feelings and I don’t like the answer.” Got it! The reality is, not one person on this forum can answer the question without it ultimately leading to nihilism (that includes those on here who are ardent Calvinists, and a couple of you who are closet Calvinists).
 
I’ll leave all other questions off the table for now and keep it simple. Just answer one question: Why eternally condemn a person who wasn’t predestined at birth?
Your question is just another form of the question Paul anticipated. Why doth He yet find fault, for who hath resisted his will? What was Paul's answer?
 
"Tares" usually claim to be saved and remember that they are sown by the enemy!

"Goats" are the ones who likely "Think" they are saved but are not.

These guys I am speaking of admit they are NOT saved and are waiting for God to save them. This is what has me scratching my head thinking something is amiss. Actually goes against the "T" in Calvinist theology don't you think?
No, I don't think so at all. They're just avoiding the issue. If they're not seeking, asking, and knocking, there is no work of grace in their hearts. They don't truly believe in the Judgment that awaits them.
 
I think the slope from true Calvinism to Nietzsche’s nihilism, isn’t too steep. In fact, I believe one could draw some parallels rather easily.
Sure, because a good God who loves his people and wants the best for them and has a plan for them isn't the exact opposite of nihilism at all.
 
So, in other words, “that question hurts my feelings and I don’t like the answer.” Got it! The reality is, not one person on this forum can answer the question without it ultimately leading to nihilism (that includes those on here who are ardent Calvinists, and a couple of you who are closet Calvinists).
No, ALL deserve death and eternal destruction in the Lake-of-fire (including myself). God is perfectly righteous and just to save nobody. That he has chosen to save SOME is all of grace and goes far beyond my ability to understand. I also believe such lines up with scriptures upon which I gladly stand. If you have a problem with this, your problem is with God, not me. You may take it up with him when you stand before him in judgment.
 
The point I was trying to make is that although I am Calvinistic and do believe that "regeneration precedes faith," I do not believe it to be something I would need to bring up to someone I am trying to lead to Christ. It is something more for me than them as I remember that it is GOD WHO GIVES THE INCREASE and not me. We can get overly technical in our explanation even getting into things we ourselves do not fully understand.

The people in question who are supposedly "Waiting for God to grant them repentance and faith to believe" have been done a disservice by their (I'm sure well-meaning) Calvinist pastor and hopefully they ran across some dumb backwoods preacher who was able to encourage them to "Make their calling and election sure!"

I believe that John R. Rice and the Apostle Paul had it right when they responded "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved!
Fundamentally, it is a Person who saves, not a confession. We can talk till the cows come home about the sequence of events. I think it's spontaneous, like conception. A fully human life has come into existence, but there is growth and development that manifests itself in discernible stages.
 
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Horse-pucky. That’s intellectually lazy, not to mention it flies in the face of thousands of years worth of Christian and non-Christian reasoning. Plato, Socrates, St. Thomas Aquinas, Boetheus, etc., all believed in a natural order of learning that utilized philosophy and the natural sciences, while leading to theology.
I get what you're saying here, and agree. But I don't think you're hearing BR.
 
Cool. Let’s just go back to the Middle Ages and completely halt all basic education, including elementary grammar and reading, and we’ll keep a Bible chained to the church in the town square, and we’ll have the local priest read it once or twice a day to whomever is interested. Once again, he’ll be the only guy in town capable of reading. 🙄
By law, an illiterate peasant could come at his convenience to hear the word of God in his own language, and that was a bad thing?
 
My point is, where does one draw the line, with his reasoning? Do we say any learning past high school should be strictly biblical? Do we say only certain courses in college should be biblical? It’s a slippery slope. Personally, I enjoy hearing a preacher who can converse and give real-world examples.
The Great Commission is to go into all nations, and teach them to observe all of Christ's commandments.
 
IMNSHO the main sticky wicket of the Calvinistic ordo salutis demanding that regeneration preceding faith is that in doing so it seems to assign faith to a status of a meritorious work. Faith is diametrically opposed to work so that interpretive framework doesn’t make sense to me.
An astute observation.
 
Then there’s literally no point in evangelizing. And saying “God commands it,” doesn’t change the ultimate outcome of the elect, hence it’s ultimately pointless. The same can be said for prayer. If all acts are predestined, no amount of prayer will change anything. Seems rather bleak and hopeless, IMO.
That's not true. Like I said, we preach because of love. Love for the Gospel and love for our fellow man. But God doesn't do things because of necessity. Preaching isn't necessary. It's God's chosen conduit. Was it necessary that God call upon the earth to bring forth the living creatures? Couldn't they have just popped into existence like the stars? Of course they could have. But God chose to call upon His creation to bring forth life. And that is what He is doing through preachers.
 
Let's not forget the question in the OP. What 'Must' I do?

Jesus said, Ye MUST be born again. And that is a passive thing. The work in being born is on someone else. And birth is about a state of being, and not about an act of that being. The act only reveals the state of being.

When the apostles said, "Believe," they were describing a state of being. You can no more choose to believe in Christ than you can to believe in Santa Claus. Something had to have convinced you of the truth of the matter.
 
No, ALL deserve death and eternal destruction in the Lake-of-fire (including myself). God is perfectly righteous and just to save nobody. That he has chosen to save SOME is all of grace and goes far beyond my ability to understand. I also believe such lines up with scriptures upon which I gladly stand. If you have a problem with this, your problem is with God, not me. You may take it up with him when you stand before him in judgment.
If I’m not mistaken, when you (re)joined the forum, you claimed you were a former non-believer in Calvinism, then slowly through the years —“kicking and screaming”—came to believe in it. So why would anyone believe that you, in all your infinite human wisdom, got it right now? Did you believe in the same God and the same Scriptures back when you didn’t believe in Calvinism?
 
Sure, because a good God who loves his people and wants the best for them and has a plan for them isn't the exact opposite of nihilism at all.
The question is: Can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He, from eternity, unconditionally determined not to save, and is, in the words of Calvin, “pleased to exclude” and “doom to destruction”?
 
That's not true. Like I said, we preach because of love. Love for the Gospel and love for our fellow man. But God doesn't do things because of necessity. Preaching isn't necessary. It's God's chosen conduit. Was it necessary that God call upon the earth to bring forth the living creatures? Couldn't they have just popped into existence like the stars? Of course they could have. But God chose to call upon His creation to bring forth life. And that is what He is doing through preachers.
The question is: Can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He, from eternity, unconditionally determined not to save, and is, in the words of Calvin, “pleased to exclude” and “doom to destruction”?
 
Let's not forget the question in the OP. What 'Must' I do?

Jesus said, Ye MUST be born again. And that is a passive thing. The work in being born is on someone else. And birth is about a state of being, and not about an act of that being. The act only reveals the state of being.

When the apostles said, "Believe," they were describing a state of being. You can no more choose to believe in Christ than you can to believe in Santa Claus. Something had to have convinced you of the truth of the matter.
So when the jailer asked what he must do to be saved Paul was commanding him to a “state of being”?
 
You can no more choose to believe in Christ than you can to believe in Santa Claus.
Muslims and Jews might have something to say about that. You do understand there are those who accept a historical Jesus but not as the son of God.
 
The question is: Can God genuinely desire the salvation of those whom He, from eternity, unconditionally determined not to save, and is, in the words of Calvin, “pleased to exclude” and “doom to destruction”?
The answer is, no, God doesn't desire the salvation of those whom he has elected to condemn. Otherwise he would have made provision for their salvation, and they would be saved.
 
The answer is, no, God doesn't desire the salvation of those whom he has elected to condemn. Otherwise he would have made provision for their salvation, and they would be saved.
This answer is not universally agreed-upon by five point Calvinists. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and a host of other passages that speaks to some general sense that God does not desire for sinners to perish (and of course I don’t disagree with your statement about limited atonement in regards to a Calvinist perspective)
 
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