What think ye??

[qwerty]

Seems like a similar thought is claimed when a pretty lady wears a little too much make-up or her skirt is a little too short. If she hadn't done that he wouldn't have raped her.

Albert Mohler hit this one out of the park IMO. And the responses in this thread so far actually serve to prove his point. How many of you have been puller over for "driving white"?

I have been pulled over many times in Gary, IN and Chicago for being other than black.  They always ask to search the vehicle, because I 'must be buying drugs'.  Then I try to hand em a track, or John n Romans, etc.  and they turn it down like I have the plague.  Then they lecture me on how stupid I am, for ministering in a "high narcotics area" or "I've seen the bodies" they say.  O Well, I've done as much to lower crime in those neighborhoods as they have.
The people I ministered to have gotten degrees, vocations, married, and are actually getting active politically.  Hopefully one day they will replace the corrupt racial profilers who harrassed me.

Anishinabe

Did you tell them that you are tired of being in a communist state?

 

[PappaBear]

I don't think it's racist or sinful to base suspicion on statistics and similarity - I don't think that makes you a racist or a bigot - just a human.

Is that better.

So for you, Martin Luther King's dream "that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." is an impossibility, because it is perfectly right and just to "base suspicion on statistics and similarity"?

Uhmmm.... I think you are totally ignoring Dr. King's phrase about the "content of their character" when you are blind to the truth of statistics and similarity.  You are attempting to make the leap that he was speaking about individual character when he mentioned his "four little children" in context. 

Shortly after 9/11, it was right to be suspicious of the shoe bomber because of the character traits recently exhibited by his people aboard airplanes.  Dr. King's dream has not yet been realized, but not because there is racial profiling, but that his people have not yet resolved the disparity of character.  You would do well to read his speech as a whole.  Then you would understand his intent to challenge people to rise to new heights and join together with people of other races instead of feeding the flames of bigotry, inequality and injustice from either side.  Also, you would not have missed this apt comment that fairly well explains what we have been saying,
[quote author=Martin Luther King "I Have A Dream"]
But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the worn threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline.[/quote]
It will be a tremendous day when we can truly climb that mountain so that none of us are known for looting, pillaging, breaking windows, or crime.  It will be glorious when all people everywhere conduct themselves with dignity, honor, and discipline.  But that day is not here, yet.  And as a gentle reminder, do not forget that the information that was NOT allowed in court showed that the content of Trayvon Martin's character was seriously lacking, that he had been involved in drugs and burglary.  *IF* Zimmerman's "profile" of the man was wrong in that specific instance, it was nevertheless not far removed from Martin's personal history and doubtless part of what prompted his vicious attack of Zimmerman, his "pursuer" and "snitch."  Profiling is wrong only when it is often in error.  But profiling is the right thing to do, regardless of race or creed, when it is so often on the money.    Not to mention the fact that Zimmerman was uncertain of Martin's race to begin with.

 

[Stephen]

i don't have a problem with anything Mohler said.  Maybe he should have profiled Martin as a dope smoking gangster racist. i guess that would have made some of you happy.

Maybe I'm just getting too liberal as I age but I can't help but feel sorry for the Martin family.  there is no one that can convince me that Trayvon Martin would have died that night if he would have been white.  That disturbs me greatly.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Maybe I'm just getting too liberal as I age but I can't help but feel sorry for the Martin family.  there is no one that can convince me that Trayvon Martin would have died that night if he would have been white.  That disturbs me greatly.

Why?  Because you think a white person wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman?  Or because you think Zimmerman would rather die than fight back against a white guy beating his head in? 

 

[prophet]

Seems like a similar thought is claimed when a pretty lady wears a little too much make-up or her skirt is a little too short. If she hadn't done that he wouldn't have raped her.

Albert Mohler hit this one out of the park IMO. And the responses in this thread so far actually serve to prove his point. How many of you have been puller over for "driving white"?

I have been pulled over many times in Gary, IN and Chicago for being other than black.  They always ask to search the vehicle, because I 'must be buying drugs'.  Then I try to hand em a track, or John n Romans, etc.  and they turn it down like I have the plague.  Then they lecture me on how stupid I am, for ministering in a "high narcotics area" or "I've seen the bodies" they say.  O Well, I've done as much to lower crime in those neighborhoods as they have.
The people I ministered to have gotten degrees, vocations, married, and are actually getting active politically.  Hopefully one day they will replace the corrupt racial profilers who harrassed me.

Anishinabe

Did you tell them that you are tired of being in a communist state?

Yes, and I was put in a squad car and threatened with jail for speaking my mind.  One officer told me I was 'just showing off in front of my woman' for calling him part of the communist state.  I was thinking :"I have 8 kids with her, the #3!! do I have to prove?"  But that was the psychology he was taught. 
FTR, I wouldn't recommend calling the pigs commies, they get offended easily.  Then they cuff you, and sit you in the street while they scatter your tracts, sermon notes, Bible, etc. all over the South Side.


Anishinabe

 

[Castor Muscular]

Good article, IMO. 

The decline of the civil-rights establishment

Today’s black leadership pretty much lives off the fumes of moral authority that linger from its glory days in the 1950s and ’60s. The Zimmerman verdict lets us see this and feel a little embarrassed for them. Consider the pathos of a leadership that once transformed the nation now lusting for the conviction of the contrite and mortified George Zimmerman, as if a stint in prison for him would somehow assure more peace and security for black teenagers everywhere. This, despite the fact that nearly one black teenager a day is shot dead on the South Side of Chicago—to name only one city—by another black teenager.

...

The Revs. Jackson and Sharpton have been consigned to a hard fate: They can never be more than redundancies, echoes of the great men they emulate because America has changed. Hard to be a King or Mandela today when your monstrous enemy is no more than the cherubic George Zimmerman.

http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/07/22/the-decline-of-the-civil-rights-establishment/

 

[prophet]

Jackson is purely surfing King Jr.'s wave for profit.  He uses Chi-town gangster extortion racket tactics, to intimidate businesses into accepting 'protection' from civil suits by paying rainbow push and the NAACP off.

Anishinabe

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

i don't have a problem with anything Mohler said.  Maybe he should have profiled Martin as a dope smoking gangster racist. i guess that would have made some of you happy.

Maybe I'm just getting too liberal as I age but I can't help but feel sorry for the Martin family.  there is no one that can convince me that Trayvon Martin would have died that night if he would have been white.  That disturbs me greatly.

I feel sorry for the Martin family....I feel sorry for any family that grieves the loss of a child.
If Zimmerman had only been Oriental...instead of a White-Hispanic. 

 

[Stephen]

Why?  Because you think a white person wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman?  Or because you think Zimmerman would rather die than fight back against a white guy beating his head in?

Zimmerman doesn't follow Trayvon if he's white.  The situation never would have escalated like it did.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Why?  Because you think a white person wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman?  Or because you think Zimmerman would rather die than fight back against a white guy beating his head in?

Zimmerman doesn't follow Trayvon if he's white.  The situation never would have escalated like it did.

You're dreaming.

 

[ddgently]

I don't think it's racist or sinful to base suspicion on statistics and similarity - I don't think that makes you a racist or a bigot - just a human.

Is that better.

So for you, Martin Luther King's dream "that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." is an impossibility, because it is perfectly right and just to "base suspicion on statistics and similarity"?

Uhmmm.... I think you are totally ignoring Dr. King's phrase about the "content of their character" when you are blind to the truth of statistics and similarity.  You are attempting to make the leap that he was speaking about individual character when he mentioned his "four little children" in context. 

I've read the quote in context (many times) and I'm pretty sure he was referring to the individual character of his children. How do you read it?

Shortly after 9/11, it was right to be suspicious of the shoe bomber because of the character traits recently exhibited by his people aboard airplanes.

It was appropriate to be suspicious of Richard Reid because he was trying to light his shoe on fire in an airplane! It would be inappropriate to be suspicious of him because he has brown skin. Do you realize how many of "his people" fly on airplanes everyday without incident? And you're lecturing me about statistics?

Dr. King's dream has not yet been realized, but not because there is racial profiling, but that his people have not yet resolved the disparity of character.  You would do well to read his speech as a whole.  Then you would understand his intent to challenge people to rise to new heights and join together with people of other races instead of feeding the flames of bigotry, inequality and injustice from either side.  Also, you would not have missed this apt comment that fairly well explains what we have been saying,

But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the worn threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline.

Again, I've read the entirety of the speech. The part you quoted is a call for blacks struggling for civil rights not to turn to violence in order to achieve that goal (a la Malcolm X). King was not suggesting that blacks will deserve equal rights and equal treatment when they learn to behave themselves. Blacks deserve equal rights and equal treatment because they are human beings.

[quote author=PappaBear"]It will be a tremendous day when we can truly climb that mountain so that none of us are known for looting, pillaging, breaking windows, or crime.  It will be glorious when all people everywhere conduct themselves with dignity, honor, and discipline.  But that day is not here, yet.[/quote]

. . . As evidenced by your disregard for your fellow man.

And as a gentle reminder, do not forget that the information that was NOT allowed in court showed that the content of Trayvon Martin's character was seriously lacking, that he had been involved in drugs and burglary.  *IF* Zimmerman's "profile" of the man was wrong in that specific instance, it was nevertheless not far removed from Martin's personal history and doubtless part of what prompted his vicious attack of Zimmerman, his "pursuer" and "snitch."

It was not allowed because it was not relevant to the charges.

Profiling is wrong only when it is often in error.  But profiling is the right thing to do, regardless of race or creed, when it is so often on the money.    Not to mention the fact that Zimmerman was uncertain of Martin's race to begin with.

So profiling is only wrong when it's wrong, but if it turns out to be right, it's okay? The ends justify the means?

The use of the word "profiling" is just the liberals' attempt to replace the word  "racism" because "racism" has been over used.

The word "profile" has no racist implications. It is our God-given sense to identify a potential threat.

My wife profiled three white men who were following us out of a movie theatre. She prevented us from being attacked.

I profiled two black teens with hoodies and we were able to escape when they started to chase us.

Read the book, "The Gift of Fear" and you will learn that profiling is one of our God-given natural senses.

Profiling is distinct from being aware of your surroundings. I was at a bus stop yesterday in business attire and the others waiting were young black males in low-riding shorts/backwards hats etc. I didn't feel threatened. If I had, that would be profiling. Now if someone had acted aggressively toward me, I would have been "on watch" for any potential threat. See the difference?

Why?  Because you think a white person wouldn't have attacked Zimmerman?  Or because you think Zimmerman would rather die than fight back against a white guy beating his head in?

Zimmerman doesn't follow Trayvon if he's white.  The situation never would have escalated like it did.

You're dreaming.

No, he's exactly right (and that's the point). Black males are considered "suspect" by non-blacks almost by default. Especially if they're wearing clothing the non-black considers "ghetto" or "thuggish." Especially at night. Especially in a neighborhood with a substantial non-black majority.

While we'll never know for sure, Stephen, many Americans, and myself find it hard to believe that Martin's race had nothing to do with Zimmerman's suspicion.

 

[FSSL]

Profiling is distinct from being aware of your surroundings. I was at a bus stop yesterday in business attire and the others waiting were young black males in low-riding shorts/backwards hats etc. I didn't feel threatened. If I had, that would be profiling. Now if someone had acted aggressively toward me, I would have been "on watch" for any potential threat. See the difference?

Your definition of "profiling" is the problem.

Young black males that dress like gang members want to be seen as belonging to that culture. So, I will view them with as if they are gang members. Just being aware of your surroundings which includes people who dress like gangstas is profiling without racist issues. I am wary of white girls who dress in the same manner.

In fact, yesterday, in 90 degree weather a 20 something black male wearing a hoodie held up a gas station in our hometown.
Common sense dictates that we be aware of the potential threat.

 

[Castor Muscular]

No, he's exactly right (and that's the point). Black males are considered "suspect" by non-blacks almost by default. Especially if they're wearing clothing the non-black considers "ghetto" or "thuggish." Especially at night. Especially in a neighborhood with a substantial non-black majority.

Maybe to you and some other people.  It certainly wouldn't make a difference to me, if I were in Zimmerman's shoes.  IMO, this is especially true of Florida, or at least parts of it.  I spent several months in Florida (near but not in Orlando).  The majority of thuggish people I saw there were white.  Trayvon looked positively clean-cut compared to many of the thuggish whites I recall.  If I was on community watch and saw one of those white guys in my neighborhood, I'd be very suspicious. 

 

[ddgently]

No, he's exactly right (and that's the point). Black males are considered "suspect" by non-blacks almost by default. Especially if they're wearing clothing the non-black considers "ghetto" or "thuggish." Especially at night. Especially in a neighborhood with a substantial non-black majority.

Maybe to you and some other people.  It certainly wouldn't make a difference to me, if I were in Zimmerman's shoes.  IMO, this is especially true of Florida, or at least parts of it.  I spent several months in Florida (near but not in Orlando).  The majority of thuggish people I saw there were white.  Trayvon looked positively clean-cut compared to many of the thuggish whites I recall.  If I was on community watch and saw one of those white guys in my neighborhood, I'd be very suspicious.

And maybe you're right about Zimmerman. He apparently has a history of calling the cops at the drop of a hat, so perhaps he's over-zealous.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I grew up in a poor part of a small town.  It was sorta rough.  You didn't go into wrong neighborhoods at the wrong time of day/night.  It is much worse now.  I've went back and knocked doors soulwinning.  I wouldn't go there at all at night now, nor would I let my wife go there without my company.  The profile of a "thug" isn't that uncommon for white communities.  Sure, the externals may be different, but you can spot them pretty quickly.  Call it profiling if you will, but I'd be just as on-edge in my old neighborhood if a "thug" were to approach me as I would for a "gangsta" in his neighborhood. 

Furthermore, before all this forum conversation took place, I had a real life situation of "profiling" occur at the local grocery store.  I was with my wife but we were separated in the store.  After we came out together she asked me if I had seen the skinny pale white girl.  Instantly I knew who she was referring to, and said "yes".  I had noticed her because she had all the earmarks of a drug user, and her shifty appearance caused me to take note and be more attentive to my surroundings.  "Profiling" (of that nature) can save your life, and at least make you a more difficult target.  I could relate more stories, but suffice it to say that I pay attention to how potential threats behave when I am out and about, whether locally or on vacation, or wherever.

 

[pastorryanhayden]

When I worked at a drug store we would "profile" meth heads all the time.  You could see them come in the door with their half-zombie appearance and you would just know they would try to steal something.  95% of the time, we were right.
Not one of them was black.