What your "pastor" is lying to you about!

[praise_yeshua]

3. "Pastors" should be gifted and appointed by God. Not by a "vote" of the local assembly.

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Timothy and Titus are only two individuals ever mentioned has having the authority and right to appoint "bishops" in the local assembly. This "appointment" was a judgement call made among many that no doubt existed that meet the requirements.

Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service.

The majority of the time.... a "pastor" only serves if he pleases the local congregation. Don't "kid yourselves". You know its true. God hasn't called 1,000 pastors to lead 1,000 churches in the span of 10 square miles....

 

[HeDied4U]

3. "Pastors" should be gifted and appointed by God. Not by a "vote" of the local assembly.

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Timothy and Titus are only two individuals ever mentioned has having the authority and right to appoint "bishops" in the local assembly. This "appointment" was a judgement call made among many that no doubt existed that meet the requirements.

Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service.

The majority of the time.... a "pastor" only serves if he pleases the local congregation. Don't "kid yourselves". You know its true. God hasn't called 1,000 pastors to lead 1,000 churches in the span of 10 square miles....

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

 

[Ransom]

Timothy and Titus haven't been seen appointing "pastors" in centuries. The Bible only mentions them as having the right to make such appointments.

What if I'm not a Roman Catholic? We don't do apostolic succession here . . .

 

[Ransom]

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

Well, the logical conclusion of this is . . . what churches?  Amongst the norms of a duly constituted New Testament church is that it has deacons and elders. If you don't have those, you don't have a church; you have a Christian coffee-klatch.

Also, contra Yeezy's assertion above, one of the qualifications of an elder is not that he be appointed by an apostle. The implication is that since the apostles were mortal, they expected the church to be leaderless in a generation or two, by design. That's absurd.

 

[praise_yeshua]

3. "Pastors" should be gifted and appointed by God. Not by a "vote" of the local assembly.

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Timothy and Titus are only two individuals ever mentioned has having the authority and right to appoint "bishops" in the local assembly. This "appointment" was a judgement call made among many that no doubt existed that meet the requirements.

Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service.

The majority of the time.... a "pastor" only serves if he pleases the local congregation. Don't "kid yourselves". You know its true. God hasn't called 1,000 pastors to lead 1,000 churches in the span of 10 square miles....

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

Let them do what they want to do. Jesus didn't lead a rebellion to throw out all the Phraisees.... and I'm sure some of them weren't as bad as others....

I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just because someone takes a vote and places a "pastor" in power..... doesn't mean they have recognized the gifts of God in their life.... nor have they been anointed and approved for service just because they know how to quote Titus and Timothy.....

I'm certain Titus and Timothy would have a different opinion and choice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Timothy and Titus haven't been seen appointing "pastors" in centuries. The Bible only mentions them as having the right to make such appointments.

What if I'm not a Roman Catholic? We don't do apostolic succession here . . .

Timothy and Titus are not examples of apostolic succession.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

Well, the logical conclusion of this is . . . what churches?  Amongst the qualities of a duly constituted New Testament church is that it has deacons and elders. If you don't have those, you don't have a church; you have a Christian coffee-klatch.

Yeah..... who cares if there are 1,000 local churches in a 10 mile radius all having deacons and pastors of their own choosing.... This really isn't a "coffee-klatch".

 

[ALAYMAN]

3. "Pastors" should be gifted and appointed by God. Not by a "vote" of the local assembly.

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Timothy and Titus are only two individuals ever mentioned has having the authority and right to appoint "bishops" in the local assembly. This "appointment" was a judgement call made among many that no doubt existed that meet the requirements.

Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service.

The majority of the time.... a "pastor" only serves if he pleases the local congregation. Don't "kid yourselves". You know its true. God hasn't called 1,000 pastors to lead 1,000 churches in the span of 10 square miles....

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

Let them do what they want to do. Jesus didn't lead a rebellion to throw out all the Phraisees.... and I'm sure some of them weren't as bad as others....

I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just because someone takes a vote and places a "pastor" in power..... doesn't mean they have recognized the gifts of God in their life.... nor have they been anointed and approved for service just because they know how to quote Titus and Timothy.....

I'm certain Titus and Timothy would have a different opinion and choice.

You pretty much dodged his question.  You said God should appoint the pastor/leader.  What does that mean?  How would God accomplish this per your understanding?

 

[rsc2a]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

 

[praise_yeshua]

3. "Pastors" should be gifted and appointed by God. Not by a "vote" of the local assembly.

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Timothy and Titus are only two individuals ever mentioned has having the authority and right to appoint "bishops" in the local assembly. This "appointment" was a judgement call made among many that no doubt existed that meet the requirements.

Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service.

The majority of the time.... a "pastor" only serves if he pleases the local congregation. Don't "kid yourselves". You know its true. God hasn't called 1,000 pastors to lead 1,000 churches in the span of 10 square miles....

Interesting thoughts, but I'm curious. What do you suggest be done for appointing pastors to churches? Should pastors that were "voted in" be relieved of their duties and their church disbanded?

Let them do what they want to do. Jesus didn't lead a rebellion to throw out all the Phraisees.... and I'm sure some of them weren't as bad as others....

I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just because someone takes a vote and places a "pastor" in power..... doesn't mean they have recognized the gifts of God in their life.... nor have they been anointed and approved for service just because they know how to quote Titus and Timothy.....

I'm certain Titus and Timothy would have a different opinion and choice.

You pretty much dodged his question.  You said God should appoint the pastor/leader.  What does that mean?  How would God accomplish this per your understanding?

We must recognize the gifted. Just like Titus and Timothy. Its not about popularity.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

My name's not Tad....

Feel free to expound.

 

[rsc2a]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

My name's not Tad....

Feel free to expound.

Very simple. Outside of the baptiscostal flavors,  pastors are not completely (often at all) a local choice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

My name's not Tad....

Feel free to expound.

Very simple. Outside of the baptiscostal flavors,  pastors are not completely (often at all) a local choice.

Local or regional. Not much difference in the two. Politics exist in both.

 

[ALAYMAN]

We must recognize the gifted. Just like Titus and Timothy. Its not about popularity.

I thought you said God had to appoint them.  So who is this we?

 

[rsc2a]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

My name's not Tad....

Feel free to expound.

Very simple. Outside of the baptiscostal flavors,  pastors are not completely (often at all) a local choice.

Local or regional. Not much difference in the two. Politics exist in both.

i.e. You were wrong.

 

[praise_yeshua]

For centuries local "pastors" have been chosen by each individual church. However, it didn't start that way and it shouldn't be that way today.

Might want to broaden your perspective a tad.

My name's not Tad....

Feel free to expound.

Very simple. Outside of the baptiscostal flavors,  pastors are not completely (often at all) a local choice.

Local or regional. Not much difference in the two. Politics exist in both.

i.e. You were wrong.

No. I'm not. The political environment exist in regional authority is very little different than local authority. Generally speaking the local congregation can still reject an appointment.

 

[praise_yeshua]

We must recognize the gifted. Just like Titus and Timothy. Its not about popularity.

I thought you said God had to appoint them.  So who is this we?

Everyone.

 

[ALAYMAN]

We must recognize the gifted. Just like Titus and Timothy. Its not about popularity.

I thought you said God had to appoint them.  So who is this we?

Everyone.

Who is "everyone"? 

Earlier you said "Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service", which implied that only those in apostolic times were qualified to appoint leaders.  Did I misunderstand your implication?

 

[praise_yeshua]

We must recognize the gifted. Just like Titus and Timothy. Its not about popularity.

I thought you said God had to appoint them.  So who is this we?

Everyone.

Who is "everyone"? 

Earlier you said "Their quality of judgment doesn't exists today. Most "pastors" are elected based on popularity or pressure. Not based on being gifted and positioned by God for service", which implied that only those in apostolic times were qualified to appoint leaders.  Did I misunderstand your implication?

That's about perfect.

I was really talking about methods. You can't take what Paul said to Titus and Timothy and apply it today. You can't. Everyone does and they are wrong in doing so.

Do you feel like God has appointed you like Paul appointed Titus and Timothy?

I said everyone should recognize the gifts that God gave to the Body.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Do you feel like God has appointed you like Paul appointed Titus and Timothy?

I said everyone should recognize the gifts that God gave to the Body.

I feel like I have the same Holy Spirit that they did.  I have more of the Scriptures than they had.  And I have a community of believers that likewise can provide unity in recognizing the one God calls to shepherd His people.  So in a word, yes, I do believe I've been appointed among the priesthood to use my soul liberty and discernment to assist my brothers and sisters in calling/recognizing those who might lead us.