When was the last time you articulated the gospel to somebody?

[Castor Muscular]

If you are asking if I read the Scriptures at 33 or even thereabouts, the answer is no.  After I got saved, though, I had an insatiable appetite for the Scriptures.

So what were the circumstances when you were born again?  Were you thinking about things you'd already heard regarding the Scriptures?

No.  I had a lot of turning points, none of them involved reading or hearing the Scriptures.  I had some peripheral knowledge of the Scriptures, and I always wondered about the verse that says if you're not with him you're against him, but rejected that knowledge until I came to believe Jesus was who he said he was.  Then the Scriptures had meaning for me. 

If any text made a difference, it was Mere Christianity. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

[quote author=rsc2a]That's not the same thing.

Tell me: when CNN reports on Assad killing civilians, is CNN the means that Assad uses to accomplish that task or is CNN delivering the news that Assad is doing it?

CNN isn't God. 

I am aware of that. You also dodged the question. Let me ask again:

When CNN reports on Assad killing civilians, is CNN the means that Assad uses to accomplish that task or is CNN delivering the news that Assad is doing it?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]God has ordained that the <preaching of the> gospel is the means that he will use to bring people to himself.  That's what His word says, and evangelicals for eons have understood it.  I think you understand it too, but like being, well, obtuse. [/quote]

Whether I agree with you or not*, you have now added to your original statement, thereby changing the meaning.

* I would agree that it is a means, not the means.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Barnes
The power of God - This expression means that it is the way in which God exerts his power in the salvation of people. It is the efficacious or mighty plan, by which power goes forth to save, and by which all the obstacles of man’s redemption are taken away[/quote]

Frankly, I'm not concerned that some guy with a particular bias commented in a manner than is consistent with his bias. I'm concerned about with what the text says and what the words actually mean as used in Scripture (and, more broadly, in the context in which they were written).

So when you are finished answering the question you dodged, can you give me the Greek word we derive "gospel" from and tell me what it actually means in that tongue?
[/quote]

You are simply wrong.  The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.  It is the tool that Christ uses to bring people to Himself.  Romans 1:16, James 1:18, I Peter 1:23, et al prove you wrong.  I'm sure that you aren't concerned with what Barnes, or hundreds of others say in agreement with me, because you are selective about your "communion with the saints" and careful about which shoulders of giants you stand on, particularly when they are nearly unanimously in diametric opposition to your false beliefs.

 

[ALAYMAN]

No.  I had a lot of turning points, none of them involved reading or hearing the Scriptures.  I had some peripheral knowledge of the Scriptures, and I always wondered about the verse that says if you're not with him you're against him, but rejected that knowledge until I came to believe Jesus was who he said he was.  Then the Scriptures had meaning for me. 

If any text made a difference, it was Mere Christianity.

The gospel seeds were there, as some had planted, some watered, and God gave the increase.  Those seeds might have rested dormant for a long while, but at the end of the day, you were saved by Christ through the gospel.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=rsc2a]That's not the same thing.

Tell me: when CNN reports on Assad killing civilians, is CNN the means that Assad uses to accomplish that task or is CNN delivering the news that Assad is doing it?

CNN isn't God. 

I am aware of that. You also dodged the question. Let me ask again:

When CNN reports on Assad killing civilians, is CNN the means that Assad uses to accomplish that task or is CNN delivering the news that Assad is doing it?

[quote author=ALAYMAN]God has ordained that the <preaching of the> gospel is the means that he will use to bring people to himself.  That's what His word says, and evangelicals for eons have understood it.  I think you understand it too, but like being, well, obtuse.

Whether I agree with you or not*, you have now added to your original statement, thereby changing the meaning.

* I would agree that it is a means, not the means.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]Barnes
The power of God - This expression means that it is the way in which God exerts his power in the salvation of people. It is the efficacious or mighty plan, by which power goes forth to save, and by which all the obstacles of man’s redemption are taken away[/quote]

Frankly, I'm not concerned that some guy with a particular bias commented in a manner than is consistent with his bias. I'm concerned about with what the text says and what the words actually mean as used in Scripture (and, more broadly, in the context in which they were written).

So when you are finished answering the question you dodged, can you give me the Greek word we derive "gospel" from and tell me what it actually means in that tongue?
[/quote]

You are simply wrong.  The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.  It is the tool that Christ uses to bring people to Himself.  Romans 1:16, James 1:18, I Peter 1:23, et al prove you wrong.  I'm sure that you aren't concerned with what Barnes, or hundreds of others say in agreement with me, because you are selective about your "communion with the saints" and careful about which shoulders of giants you stand on, particularly when they are nearly unanimously in diametric opposition to your false beliefs.
[/quote]

That must be why you refuse to answer the question and resort to "because I say so". Not a very convincing argument.

 

[ALAYMAN]

That must be why you refuse to answer the question and resort to "because I say so". Not a very convincing argument.

I don't step to your fetch command because you are asking stupid questions.  The verses I cited say what they mean, and that is that the gospel is the instrument that God uses to bring dead men's spirit back to life.

 

[Castor Muscular]

That must be why you refuse to answer the question and resort to "because I say so". Not a very convincing argument.

I don't step to your fetch command because you are asking stupid questions.  The verses I cited say what they mean, and that is that the gospel is the instrument that God uses to bring dead men's spirit back to life.

It wasn't powerful enough to save the Israelites referred to in Romans 10 who rejected the Gospel. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

That must be why you refuse to answer the question and resort to "because I say so". Not a very convincing argument.

I don't step to your fetch command because you are asking stupid questions.  The verses I cited say what they mean, and that is that the gospel is the instrument that God uses to bring dead men's spirit back to life.

It wasn't powerful enough to save the Israelites referred to in Romans 10 who rejected the Gospel.

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  However, (ordinarily, that qualification must be added for dunces who like to quibble, not referring to you CM) the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit.  That's standard soteriology (even predestinarian) mechanics.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  However, (ordinarily, that qualification must be added for dunces who like to quibble, not referring to you CM) the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit.  That's standard soteriology (even predestinarian) mechanics.

As someone who believes in predestination, I'd have to say it's not standard with me. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  However, (ordinarily, that qualification must be added for dunces who like to quibble, not referring to you CM) the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit.  That's standard soteriology (even predestinarian) mechanics.

As someone who believes in predestination, I'd have to say it's not standard with me.

I'm assuming you are referring to your anecdotal experience with that answer, and doctrinally speaking, we accept the teachings of Scripture anytime they are contradicted by human experience.  That's just basic epistemological sense.

Well, off to bed, I have to prophecy tomorrow.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  However, (ordinarily, that qualification must be added for dunces who like to quibble, not referring to you CM) the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit.  That's standard soteriology (even predestinarian) mechanics.

As someone who believes in predestination, I'd have to say it's not standard with me.

I'm assuming you are referring to your anecdotal experience with that answer, and doctrinally speaking, we accept the teachings of Scripture anytime they are contradicted by human experience.  That's just basic epistemological sense.

Well, off to bed, I have to prophecy tomorrow.

No, I'm speaking theologically, not referring to my personal experience. 

Also, it stands to reason that if the Gospel alone is not powerful enough to save someone, then there must be a greater power involved. 

 

[16KJV11]

I have spoken to hundreds upon hundreds about the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ over the last 27 years.  Some have never heard it at all.  Most have heard about the Lord Jesus Christ but very few had understood John 3:16.
For instance, the man I spoke to yesterday said that he had never seen John 3:16 before, even though he was raised Catholic. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

I have spoken to hundreds upon hundreds about the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ over the last 27 years.  Some have never heard it at all.  Most have heard about the Lord Jesus Christ but very few had understood John 3:16.
For instance, the man I spoke to yesterday said that he had never seen John 3:16 before, even though he was raised Catholic.

Wow.

I don't know how many people know John 3:16, but I don't know anyone who doesn't know Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected, etc.  Even the most stubborn Atheist I know is aware of all of that, and much more. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  ... the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit. 

Then I don't understand why you object to the obvious meaning of Romans 10:17.

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

That's saying exactly what you said.  Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes when God says so (the command that awakens the spiritually dead so they can hear).  Hearing the Scriptures and the Gospel alone are not sufficient for faith/salvation. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

Right, I don't disagree one iota with your conclusion that until God does the regenerating that a person will not be saved, and that many people hear the gospel but reject it.  ... the elect are awakened from their spiritual deadness via the preceeding work of the Holy Spirit who uses the word to quicken the spirit. 

Then I don't understand why you object to the obvious meaning of Romans 10:17.

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

That's saying exactly what you said.  Faith comes by hearing, and hearing comes when God says so (the command that awakens the spiritually dead so they can hear).  Hearing the Scriptures and the Gospel alone are not sufficient for faith/salvation.

Homeruns comes by hitting, and hitting comes by the swinging of the bat.

Everytime a big-leaguer swings does not result in a homerun, as imperfect an analogy as that is, it tells the same kind of truth that Rom 10:17 relates.  Salvation doesn't come to the lost everytime the gospel is preached but in order to bring about salvation in the souls of lost men the gospel will be the tool that God uses to make it happen (whenever He decides to make it effective).  God is always the primary causal agent in salvation, but He uses tools ("means"....the gospel) to bring about salvation.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I have spoken to hundreds upon hundreds about the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ over the last 27 years.  Some have never heard it at all.  Most have heard about the Lord Jesus Christ but very few had understood John 3:16.
For instance, the man I spoke to yesterday said that he had never seen John 3:16 before, even though he was raised Catholic.

Wow.

I don't know how many people know John 3:16, but I don't know anyone who doesn't know Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected, etc.  Even the most stubborn Atheist I know is aware of all of that, and much more.

Most people, if they have a rudimentary understanding of what you just said, mix it with some form of belief that they must do their part.  That ain't the gospel, and I see that regularly in evangelism.  I have a jail ministry.  Many times people have indicated they have never heard the true good news of Christ.

 

[rsc2a]

It's amazing how much some people want to make themselves the responsible party for someone else's salvation. I'll just do my best to follow Jesus and Let Him do the saving.

 

[Castor Muscular]

It's amazing how much some people want to make themselves the responsible party for someone else's salvation. I'll just do my best to follow Jesus and Let Him do the saving.

I'm surprised some people don't put notches in their Bible to keep track of the number of souls they've won. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

It's amazing how obtuse some people are, going to great lengths to ignore, obfuscate, and generally misrepresent other people's words.  Some people might call that "lying".

 

[ALAYMAN]

It's amazing how much some people want to make themselves the responsible party for someone else's salvation. I'll just do my best to follow Jesus and Let Him do the saving.

it;s amazing to me how many people call themselves christian then sit back and pretend God never commanded us to go out and reach the lost........ following Jesus means going where He goes.... doing as He commands..... not sitting back doing nothing but criticizing others who are doing as He commanded..... 

Too much antinomianism or maybe mild hyper-Calvinism.

 

[16KJV11]

Man o Man am I sorry I ever testified about seeing someone get saved.