When We Fail

Vince, I think teaching children is a "status" position.  If we follow Christ's example. "Suffer the little children to come unto me."

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Jo said:
Vince, I think teaching children is a "status" position.  If we follow Christ's example. "Suffer the little children to come unto me."
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Shhhhh!  I don't want the status-seekers to find out, or they'll come after me!
 
Because "prophecy" scares many Christians away from spiritual gifts, I need to explain it.

1 Corinthians 14:3 tells us  "But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort.

Notice that prophesying ONLY means that you speak words that help people. The HAC doctrine that violent gang members were men of God is false--every Old Testament use of "man of God" except one clearly states that he was a prophet. Prophets MIGHT be able to predict the future, but this is not a Biblical promise.

Charismatics have moved away from the idea that a self-proclaimed prophet has ruling power over God's people. They got themselves fouled up with this mistake, and that scared other Christians. But "prophets" who come in demanding that God's people must obey them are not too successful these days.

Reading 1 Corinthians 14:3 in a variety of translations will show you that prophecy is not evil and is not to be feared.


 
Why the Assemblies  of God and the Baptists have problems getting along:

Baptist: You pray in tongues?
AOG: Yeah
Baptist: You know that praying in tongues in only mentioned one time in the Bible?
AOG: So?
Baptist: The one time it's mentioned, Paul tells you not to do it.

AOG: Oh, yeah?
Baptist: Yeah
AOG: So you believe everything the Bible says?
Baptist: Yeah
AOG: That why do Baptists teach, preach, and practice disobedience to 1 Corinthians 14:1?
http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-1.htm
 
I have bee away for a while and just checked in to see if Vince ever answered Ransom's questions. The I realized that I don't want to read every post that I missed.

If anyone can answer with a yes or no it will be enough to satisfy my dwindling curiosity.
 
subllibrm said:
I have bee away for a while and just checked in to see if Vince ever answered Ransom's questions. The I realized that I don't want to read every post that I missed.

If anyone can answer with a yes or no it will be enough to satisfy my dwindling curiosity.
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No.




:)
 
1 Corinthians 14:1 commands us "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy."

Years of diligently reading the Sword of the Lord, numerous books by John R. Rice, and five years at HAC, I never heard this verse mentioned.

Every Christian has at least one spiritual gift, but you are allowed to receive more. We are to seek the better gifts, especially prophecy (the ability to comfort, exhort, help, etc.) Since the Holy Spirit gives out these gifts as He sees fit, we are  not to rebel by seeking positions God has not called us to.  We are also not to fight with Christians who have different gifts. And since these gifts are designed to edify the church, we are to use them diligently.
 
Off subject here, but every time I see this thread title I can't help but think of the song title from Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. When you're in love...........
 
Christians fail for a variety of reasons, and I want to give two overlapping ones: circular reasoning and root reasoning.

Circular reasoning holds that "A" is true, when it is not. But no matter how strongly you prove that A is false, the person believes it is true, because A is proved by B. And no matter how strongly you prove that B is false, the person believes it because B is proved by C. And no matter how strongly you prove that C is false, the person believes it because C is proved by A. Calvinism relies strongly on circular reasoning.

In Root Reasoning, a person holds to A, a practice that clearly does not work. But he continues to believe it is right because he strongly believes in B, upon which the practice is based. B doesn't work either, but it is based on C, which the person strongly believes. Eventually, you work your way down to a deeply-rooted belief, often instilled in childhood, that the person will not forsake. This root belief is part of his personality, much of his reasoning developed from this root, and the person has very strong emotional ties to this root. Many of the failures in Jack's life were the result of his root belief that man-made rules are both the cause and result of holiness.

The two systems are similar,  overlap, and sometimes support the same wrong practices.
 
Recovering IFB said:
This looks like to me that Vince has a "mannagawd" complex going. "If yo don't agree with me, you're a scorner". The reason why he won't answer Ransom's questions.....
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The stories, which could be encouraging, are off-putting because they seem to be judged "failures" because they did not do what Vince thought they should do, or they opposed him.

I still believe and would welcome a discussion on what a failure is... I  think that God is the ultimate judge of success or failure, and our understanding is not to be trusted.

I will say what I've said before -- if it wasn't for God giving us the Scriptures, we would call Jonah a success and Noah a failure.  Most Christians, hearing a description of Jesus' life (without naming Him), would call Him a failure:  There was a man who went about doing God's will, but only managed to gather a handful of followers.  His ministry lasted only a few years, and then he was killed by the local religious leaders. That caused about half of his followers to abandon t he work."  -- if one didn't know Jesus was being described, wouldn't one think such a man was a failure?
 
Walt, I have made clear, on more than one occasion, what I mean by failure. Overall, it means that we fail to achieve what God wants us to achieve. In one specific area, I have described missionaries who come to this part of Mexico with published goals, who raised support by publicly stating those goals, and then went home without accomplishing those goals as having failed. I have made clear that it is not always their fault.
 
Another reason that Christians fail is that they lack wisdom Proverbs 4:7 tells us "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

Brethren, it is amazing how many problems, bad situations, and sources of sin you can walk away from if you have wisdom. Several years after they graduate, less than half of all Bible college grads even attend church--wisdom won't do that to you. Unhappy Christians remain stuck a church getting no spiritual growth because they fear wrong doctrine if they leave--their church almost certainly has some wrong doctrine anyway.

Genuine Christians serve Peter Ruckman and/or Saint Augustine, when Scripture makes clear than neither man was saved. We'll be seeing some of the benefits of wisdom, along with ways to get wisdom, in the next few days.

What? You don't believe that wisdom is the principal thing? Read Proverbs 4:7 in a variety of translations and see if that helps. http://biblehub.com/proverbs/4-7.htm
 
Vince is a one-string banjo, and the threads he starts have this annoying tendency to devolve into self-congratulatory blather about how people "fail" unless they follow his God-given wisdom about practicing spiritual gifts the way he thinks they ought:for instance, his unbiblical demand that teachers may not teach unless they're willing to teach children.

Well, fine. I can be annoying and repetitive too.

Vince has yet to answer these questions about the way he allegorize Acts.

He has not yet answered these questions about this thread.

And he has claimed Charles Spurgeon had major doctrinal problems, but has thus far failed to explicate what they are.

Questions are above His Worship. Just believe everything he says at face value, you abject failures.
 
Vince Massi said:
Walt, I have made clear, on more than one occasion, what I mean by failure. Overall, it means that we fail to achieve what God wants us to achieve. In one specific area, I have described missionaries who come to this part of Mexico with published goals, who raised support by publicly stating those goals, and then went home without accomplishing those goals as having failed. I have made clear that it is not always their fault.
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Fair enough... but "we fail to achieve what God wants us to achieve" means that we have a clear understanding of what God wants us to achieve.  People can publish goals all they want, but it doesn't mean that they were in God's will when they sought those goals.

Most missionaries will list seeing souls saved or some such goal, go to the field, and go home without anyone saved -- but, they have planted a seed that some later missionary will harvest.  We have a tendency to rejoice over the harvest, but we forget people who "planted" and "watered".  Did the platers and the waterers fail because they didn't make their stated goals?  I don't think so.
 
Vince Massi said:
Another reason that Christians fail is that they lack wisdom Proverbs 4:7 tells us "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

Brethren, it is amazing how many problems, bad situations, and sources of sin you can walk away from if you have wisdom. Several years after they graduate, less than half of all Bible college grads even attend church--wisdom won't do that to you. Unhappy Christians remain stuck a church getting no spiritual growth because they fear wrong doctrine if they leave--their church almost certainly has some wrong doctrine anyway.

Genuine Christians serve Peter Ruckman and/or Saint Augustine, when Scripture makes clear than neither man was saved. We'll be seeing some of the benefits of wisdom, along with ways to get wisdom, in the next few days.
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Yes, wisdom will help us.  We have to ask for it, and seek it in the Scriptures.

On what basis of Scripture do you pronounce Peter Ruckman not saved?  I'm no fan of his, but I would not care to make such a statement.
 
Walt said:
Vince Massi said:
Another reason that Christians fail is that they lack wisdom Proverbs 4:7 tells us "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

On what basis of Scripture do you pronounce Peter Ruckman not saved?  I'm no fan of his, but I would not care to make such a statement.
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From Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are these:... hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, ..., dissensions, heresies...envy,  and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
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Walt said:
On what basis of Scripture do you pronounce Peter Ruckman not saved?  I'm no fan of his, but I would not care to make such a statement.
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Probably on the same basis he counts Augustine as not saved. Pure fantasy and revisionist history.
 
Ecclesiastes 10:10 tells us "If the iron be blunt, and he do not whet the edge, then must he put to more strength: but wisdom is profitable to direct."

Godly saints foul up all over the place because they lack the wisdom to succeed. Just as a man with a dull ax can have some success, they can claim, truthfully, that some good was done after they fail to meet their goals. Wisdom, however, can show them how to turn that little bit of good into real success.

Now add the previous verse, and you learn even more about the value of wisdom: "... he who splits logs may be endangered by them.  If the axe is dull and he does not sharpen its edge, then he must exert more strength. Wisdom has the advantage of giving success." 

This whole thread started as a result of angry, unsuccessful missionaries who failed in this area of Mexico. They hurt themselves with their failure, and from what I can see on Facebook, they still do not understand why they failed. They worked hard, but they failed because they lacked wisdom.

 
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