Whose Fault? Husband or Church?

[subllibrm]

At pastor's school on year I heard Russ Anderson say
"most pastors don't believe in luck, but I disagree, I have found the more hrs. I work the luckier I get."
After the session, I asked him how many hrs a week he worked. He said when he was young (30's & 40's) he worked 70 to 80 hrs a week sometimes a little more. He said with family and church responsibilities that's about all he could manage. He said when he got older he cut back to a 70 hr average or so. He also claimed to rarely miss church or soul winning with that schedule.
He also made the statement that "you work 9 to 5 to pay your bill, but true success is a result of the work you do before 9 am and after 5.

Nothing about fitting the wife and kids in?  ???

???
He didn't write the LIFE STORY of this dude Anderson. There's no need to imply that he was a bad hubby & dad.

Since I have no idea who the guy is then I can only go by the context of the post and the  theme of the thread. So what I read was "I worked a boat load of hours and still found time to do church stuff" .

My point was you can work more than 40 hrs. a week and still have time for church & family.
In the context of the post he said he did not work more because of church and family responsibilities. For most of us that would imply church & family were still the priority in his life.

It might help if you read the preceding post before you criticize or judge someone you don't even know.

No judgment, no criticism. Just a question.

 

[sword]

At pastor's school on year I heard Russ Anderson say
"most pastors don't believe in luck, but I disagree, I have found the more hrs. I work the luckier I get."
After the session, I asked him how many hrs a week he worked. He said when he was young (30's & 40's) he worked 70 to 80 hrs a week sometimes a little more. He said with family and church responsibilities that's about all he could manage. He said when he got older he cut back to a 70 hr average or so. He also claimed to rarely miss church or soul winning with that schedule.
He also made the statement that "you work 9 to 5 to pay your bill, but true success is a result of the work you do before 9 am and after 5.

Nothing about fitting the wife and kids in?  ???

???
He didn't write the LIFE STORY of this dude Anderson. There's no need to imply that he was a bad hubby & dad.

Since I have no idea who the guy is then I can only go by the context of the post and the  theme of the thread. So what I read was "I worked a boat load of hours and still found time to do church stuff" .

My point was you can work more than 40 hrs. a week and still have time for church & family.
In the context of the post he said he did not work more because of church and family responsibilities. For most of us that would imply church & family were still the priority in his life.
It might help if you read the preceding post before you criticize or judge someone you don't even know.

No judgment, no criticism. Just a question.

I think the answer, as with so many thing, is balance.

So many Christians, myself included, struggle with having a balanced life. In an effort to excel at one aspect of our lives we neglect others. I believe the bible teaches we should live balanced lives.

 

[subllibrm]

At pastor's school on year I heard Russ Anderson say
"most pastors don't believe in luck, but I disagree, I have found the more hrs. I work the luckier I get."
After the session, I asked him how many hrs a week he worked. He said when he was young (30's & 40's) he worked 70 to 80 hrs a week sometimes a little more. He said with family and church responsibilities that's about all he could manage. He said when he got older he cut back to a 70 hr average or so. He also claimed to rarely miss church or soul winning with that schedule.
He also made the statement that "you work 9 to 5 to pay your bill, but true success is a result of the work you do before 9 am and after 5.

Nothing about fitting the wife and kids in?  ???

???
He didn't write the LIFE STORY of this dude Anderson. There's no need to imply that he was a bad hubby & dad.

Since I have no idea who the guy is then I can only go by the context of the post and the  theme of the thread. So what I read was "I worked a boat load of hours and still found time to do church stuff" .

My point was you can work more than 40 hrs. a week and still have time for church & family.
In the context of the post he said he did not work more because of church and family responsibilities. For most of us that would imply church & family were still the priority in his life.
It might help if you read the preceding post before you criticize or judge someone you don't even know.

No judgment, no criticism. Just a question.

I think the answer, as with so many thing, is balance.

So many Christians, my self included, struggle with having a balanced life. In an effort to excel at one aspect of our lives we neglect others. I believe the bible teaches we should live balanced lives.

No argument there.

 

[Walt]

It [a church] dare not ask for a man's full time attention if it cannot pay him a full time living wage.

Excellent quote!

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Is it right for the church to give the pastor something like, Life Insurance, when a tithing layman cannot afford it for himself?

Is it right to give the pastor something that tithing laymen in the church cannot afford for themselves?

Let's frame this a little differently. Typically a minister is a well-educated,  skilled professional. Is such a person worthy of a salary that allows him to afford such things as a life insurance policy? If they can't afford to pay him a decent wage based on his skills,  experience, hours worked and level of responsibility,  then I submit they are morally obligated to free him from such responsibilities that allow him to pursue a second vocation so he can meet his financial obligations to himself and his family.

^^ This

 

[Binaca Chugger]

At pastor's school on year I heard Russ Anderson say
"most pastors don't believe in luck, but I disagree, I have found the more hrs. I work the luckier I get."

After the session, I asked him how many hrs a week he worked. He said when he was young (30's & 40's) he worked 70 to 80 hrs a week sometimes a little more. He said with family and church responsibilities that's about all he could manage. He said when he got older he cut back to a 70 hr average or so. He also claimed to rarely missed church or soul winning with that schedule.

He also made the statement that "you work 9 to 5 to pay your bill, but true success is a result of the work you before 9 am and after 5.

Nothing about fitting the wife and kids in?  ???

???


He didn't write the LIFE STORY of this dude Anderson. There's no need to imply that he was a bad hubby & dad.

Since I have no idea who the guy is then I can only go by the context of the post and the  theme of the thread. So what I read was "I worked a boat load of hours and still found time to do church stuff" .

I have no clue who he is either.

He is talking about Russell Anderson of Hyles-Anderson fame.

Ole Russ was also a cut-throat business man.  He worked his way up to his riches from nothing, but you better believe he made some shrewd business dealings along the way.  He shares his story of wealth and claims that if anyone follows his pattern, they will automatically be granted the same riches.  I just don't believe it to be so.  As to his family.....why is his church membership in a different state than his wife's?  Odd family situation.  He travels the world talking about giving.  He never speaks of his family, unless he is talking about when they lived at home.  If it is true that "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh," his heart is not abounding with his family.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

A general response:

Like many people in ministry, money is not quite so important to me.  I am in ministry to help point people to Christ, not to get rich off the backs of church members.  I do struggle with the pastors who live luxurious lifestyles.  This concept is foreign to me.  Humanly, it can be difficult to watch others give so many "things" to their kids and not have the ability to do likewise.  If a couple really do believe ministry is their life, they will have conversations with their older kids about this scenario and explain why money is not quite so important in their home.

I do have a problem with a ministry keeping their pastor or staff in poverty, especially when some staff live in luxury and others live in poverty.  I believe a church ought to be willing to pay a staff member a median income for their locality.  If the church cannot afford such a salary, they should be understanding that the minister must provide for the basic needs of his family and allow him to earn money through other means while serving the church.  To do otherwise is cruel.

Yes.  Many people mis-manage money.  Mis-management of funds is not really the question here.  Maybe you have never known poverty.  Maybe you have never had to pray in money for food or utilities.  I would ask you to consider that many ministers are in the ministry because they want to help people, not become rich.  Consider their needs as a church member.

 

[cpizzle]

As a pastor, I would rather the church pay me nothing and allow me to earn my own way than to pay me an inadequate amount and require full control of my earnings.

Now, the Bible does say that those that "preach the gospel shall of the gospel live." 

However, Paul refused to take from the churches he founded.  He worked at night so they would know that he was there to serve them, not to be served by them.  He makes a point to take "nothing from the Gentiles." 

I do get paid by my church, but it only accounts for 20% of my total income.  I appreciate all they do for me and it allows me to do many nice things.  Still, by paying my own way, I avoid many of the dangers of the full time paid pastor.  Bitterness against his members because of his salary.  Loss of liberty to preach since his livelihood is dependent on "happy" members.  Anger and frustration from his family for Dad's decisions that prevent them from enjoying what most others enjoy. 

 

[Binaca Chugger]

As a pastor, I would rather the church pay me nothing and allow me to earn my own way than to pay me an inadequate amount and require full control of my earnings.

Now, the Bible does say that those that "preach the gospel shall of the gospel live." 

However, Paul refused to take from the churches he founded.  He worked at night so they would know that he was there to serve them, not to be served by them.  He makes a point to take "nothing from the Gentiles." 

I do get paid by my church, but it only accounts for 20% of my total income.  I appreciate all they do for me and it allows me to do many nice things.  Still, by paying my own way, I avoid many of the dangers of the full time paid pastor.  Bitterness against his members because of his salary.  Loss of liberty to preach since his livelihood is dependent on "happy" members.  Anger and frustration from his family for Dad's decisions that prevent them from enjoying what most others enjoy.

kudos to you.  This is the path I am currently pursuing. 

 

[Twisted]

I do get paid by my church, but it only accounts for 20% of my total income. 

Do you take that as a housing allowance to avoid income tax?  That's what Trump would do.

 

[cpizzle]

Since I am considered "self employed" I pay 15% self employment tax along with income tax.  So yes, I claim as much as possible.  I do not get a housing allowance but I do claim all my mileage from home to church 4 times per week (I live 25 miles away.)  I claim my cell phone which I pay for as well.  I also claim any money I spend on the church that I am not reimbursed.  I claim my giving against my income tax but not as a pastoral expense. 

Truth be told, I could find new and creative ways to save money on my taxes, ( I thought about cutting my salary in half but not giving in the offering), but I don't want the focus to be on money.  I will take whatever they give me and I will give as the Lord leads me.  Whatever the government wants, I will just "Render to Caesar."