Whosoever in John 3:16.

Ransom said:
Already covered. "Whosoever" (or its Greek equivalent) doesn't say anything about the autonomy of the will.
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A whosoever is anyone that believes and is repeated in Revelation 22:17.
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Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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Act 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent:
 
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Leatherneck0311 said:
A whosoever is anyone that believes and is repeated in Revelation 22:17.
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A "whosoever" in Rev. 22:17 is simply one who wills, rather than whosoever won't. It doesn't imply one way or the other why they will. You're expecting me to make that inference, meaning you're begging the question.
 
I will give you a layman's simplistic explanation of free-will.

In the process of salvation, I can do nothing to earn my way to Heaven.

  • Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us aways.
  • Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
  • John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
  • Romans 3:23-24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
  • Romans 5:7-8 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
  • Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.
  • Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.
  • Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Jesus paid for my sin and the sins of the whole world. He offers Salvation as a free gift.
  • Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
  • Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
  • Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
  • Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
  • John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
  • John 3:16-18 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
I was born into sin, I committed sin before I was saved, and continue to sin since I became a Christian. This is because I still have the old nature. Any good I have or do is because the Holy Spirit lives within me.
  • Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
  • Romans 7:15-25 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
  • Romans 7:15-19 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
He offers us the gift of salvation, we exercise our free will by accepting or rejecting his gift of salvation. This is why the gospel is so important, because without the knowledge of the gospel no one could choose to accept Gods free gift.
  • 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
  • Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me
  • 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
  • Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Salvation is entirely provided for and paid for by the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. We can do nothing to earn it except just receive the gift Jesus offers to everyone. We have the free will to choose to receive it or reject it like we may reject a free sample at Costco. When we are offered a sample of the newest chicken salad on a cracker we get to decide if we will take it or not. You are not forced or tricked into eating it. She simply offers it and use free will to decide if we want it. Not pressure just a polite offer
 
Ransom said:
A "whosoever" in Rev. 22:17 is simply one who wills, rather than whosoever won't. It doesn't imply one way or the other why they will. You're expecting me to make that inference, meaning you're begging the question.
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I still don’t believe “whosoever” in John 3:16 doesn’t mean exactly what it says anyone ( whosoever) can drink of the water of life freely(Rev. 22:17) and whosoever believes will be saved (John 3:16.). Whosoever means the invitation to be born again applies to EVERYONE.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
I still don’t believe “whosoever” in John 3:16 doesn’t mean exactly what it says anyone ( whosoever) can drink of the water of life freely(Rev. 22:17) and whosoever believes will be saved (John 3:16.). Whosoever means the invitation to be born again applies to EVERYONE.
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But "whosoever will" isn't everyone. It's only the ones who will. The word "whosoever" does not imply autonomous free will, whatsoever.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
I still don’t believe “whosoever” in John 3:16 doesn’t mean exactly what it says anyone ( whosoever) can drink of the water of life freely(Rev. 22:17) and whosoever believes will be saved (John 3:16.). Whosoever means the invitation to be born again applies to EVERYONE.
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As a fellow non-calvinist let me interject and assist a little here. Ransom's statement isn't about asking you what you believe "whosoever" means, but why you think that it means that anybody and everybody has the volitional ability to make the good moral choice to receive salvation (absent the regenerating initial agency of the Spirit).
 
ALAYMAN said:
As a fellow non-calvinist let me interject and assist a little here. Ransom's statement isn't about asking you what you believe "whosoever" means, but why you think that it means that anybody and everybody has the volitional ability to make the good moral choice to receive salvation (absent the regenerating initial agency of the Spirit).
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Interesting and a point I agree with Jesus said, “ no man comes to the Son unless the Father draws them”, and at that point they either accept or reject truth.
 
OK what about "ANY" in Rev. 20
  • Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Does that just mean "ANY" man that I choose to allow to be saved?
 
Or
  • 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Does that mean If we (the elect) not If we (All mankind)?

I don't intend to be argumentative just interested in your thoughts. I don't believe you could convince me nor me you but am interested in your thought process.
 
If Thou (the elect) or if thou (anybody)?
  • Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 
If we (the elect) not if we (the whole world).
  • 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
The “whosoever” that reject the gift of grace don’t receive salvation.
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And why do they reject the gift of grace? Is it of their own choice, or God's? Both, of course, are true. But which is more fundamentally true?
 
sword said:
Or
  • 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Does that mean If we (the elect) not If we (All mankind)?

I don't intend to be argumentative just interested in your thoughts. I don't believe you could convince me nor me you but am interested in your thought process.
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What contextually would lead you to believe that this verse has application to the lost?
 
Did John mean whole world (just the elect) or whole world (any who chose to be saved). What would John not be more clear that Jesus died for the sins of the elect not for everyone. I believe God know how we would choose but he gave us freewill to choose.

Why would Jesus give the great commission if those who are the elect will get saved and those who are not will die and go to Hell no matter what?

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Interesting and a point I agree with Jesus said, “ no man comes to the Son unless the Father draws them”, and at that point they either accept or reject truth.
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Ransom said:
And why do they reject the gift of grace? Is it of their own choice, or God's? Both, of course, are true. But which is more fundamentally true?
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Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
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Jhn 3:19 - And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
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That doesn't really answer my question, but it's gratifying to know you agree with the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity.
 
ALAYMAN said:
What contextually would lead you to believe that this verse has application to the lost?
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You do have a point on 1 John 1:9, I generally use this verse in reference to sins we commit after we are saved. My point is there is no reference to only a select group having their sins forgiven. The verses are all general not a specific group like the Jews, or the Elect or other specific groups.
I have always interpreted 1 John 1:9 to be for the unsaved (forgiven) and the saved (cleanse).
I don't need my sin forgiven, they were forgiven at salvation, but I need to confess and be cleaned to restore fellowship. A sinner must confess that he is a sinner in the need of a savior to be saved.
I may be reading too much into the verse, but I don't think the concept would be un-biblical. Why would John and Paul not be clear that not everyone has the option to be saved.
I have always believed predestinated to mean God knew how we would choose through foreknowledge, but created us to make our own choice. Everyone has the opportunity to be saved, they just may choose to reject the opportunity. I could predict what food each of my children would choose at the buffet line but they had the freewill to choose whatever they wanted. I also had the opportunity to influence their choice but did not always take it just as we don't always take the opportunity to tell others the gospel story.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Not even close they chose to stay in darkness. Guess you missed “ they loved darkness more than light”.
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Yes, I must have missed the very verse I was commenting upon. And you still didn't answer my question.
 
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