Whosoever in John 3:16.

[Leatherneck0311]

Yes, I must have missed the very verse I was commenting upon. And you still didn't answer my question.

Question: in acts 16:31 the jailer asked Paul what must I do to be saved and Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Do you believe Paul lied to the jailer ? God does not believe for us, God does not repent for us, and God does not reject those that place their faith in Jesus, but Calvinist say hold on that does not agree with what I believe so it has to be wrong. Election and God drawing folks to His Son Jesus who then reject or accept the truth is all over scripture yet Calvinist will or cannot see that. Scripture says God commands men everywhere to REPENT and BELIEVE. Why would God command that if men could not repent and believe ? Lol, only in the world of the deceived does scripture NOT mean what it says.

 

[Ransom]

A whosoever is anyone that believes and is repeated in Revelation 22:17.

And there's the problem. You're making a faulty grammatical argument about a pronoun.

If I get on the PA system and say, "Whoever owns the silver Honda in the parking lot, your lights are on," I'm not implying that anyone within earshot may claim ownership of the Honda. Nor am I making any statement about how he became the owner of the Honda. It simply means that of all the people on the premises, one owns the silver Honda with its lights on, and I'm speaking to him.

Similarly, John 3:16 does not affirm that anyone without restriction has the ability to believe in Christ or has the moral capability to believe. It says, simply, that some will believe, and to them, Christ will grant eternal life.

 

[Ransom]

Question: in acts 16:31 the jailer asked Paul what must I do to be saved and Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Do you believe Paul lied to the jailer ?

The question is irrelevant.

God does not believe for us,

No one said he does.

God does not repent for us,

No one said he does.

and God does not reject those that place their faith in Jesus,

No one said he does.

So I don't know what you think you're arguing against.

 

[AverageJoe]

But "whosoever will" isn't everyone. It's only the ones who will. The word "whosoever" does not imply autonomous free will, whatsoever.

Yet, it doesn't negate it either.

 

[Ransom]

Yet, it doesn't negate it either.

Which is what I said a few days ago at the beginning of the thread: John 3:16 is not a proof-text for nor against autonomous free will. The only difference is, no one tries to use it as a proof-text against.

 

[AverageJoe]

Which is what I said a few days ago at the beginning of the thread: John 3:16 is not a proof-text for nor against autonomous free will. The only difference is, no one tries to use it as a proof-text against.

Exactly...more or less using it to point it out to Bob Jon...er....Leatherneck again!

 

[Leatherneck0311]

The question is irrelevant.



No one said he does.



No one said he does.



No one said he does.

So I don't know what you think you're arguing against.

Calvinism which pretty much believes if you aren’t elected oh well it is God’s decision that you spend eternity in hell.

 

[Ransom]

Calvinism which pretty much believes if you aren’t elected oh well it is God’s decision that you spend eternity in hell.

No Calvinist actually believes the nonsense you posted. Getting mad at your own fantasies is a poor way to go through life.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

No Calvinist actually believes the nonsense you posted. Getting mad at your own fantasies is a poor way to go through life.

I have been sharing scriptures with Calvinist for years and yes I have heard those things I posted straight from Calvinist.

 

[Ransom]

I have been sharing scriptures with Calvinist for years and yes I have heard those things I posted straight from Calvinist.

Sure you have.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Sure you have.

Correct

 

[Ransom]

Correct

Apparently you're a little on the dim side, so it's understandable that you didn't recognize sarcasm.

I don't believe you. You're lying about these supposed "Calvinist."

 

[AverageJoe]

Apparently you're a little on the dim side, so it's understandable that you didn't recognize sarcasm.

I don't believe you. You're lying about these supposed "Calvinist."

Actually, Scott, I have heard a few, and I do mean just a minute # of Calvies state something similar. It's usually those who've just jumped on the Calvy bandwagon, or those who are hyper.....Not trying to give any credit to Bob Jon...er.Leatherneck...but just making known that there ARE some out there.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Apparently you're a little on the dim side, so it's understandable that you didn't recognize sarcasm.

I don't believe you. You're lying about these supposed "Calvinist."

Typical Calvinist proud, arrogant ,and scripturally unsound.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Exactly...more or less using it to point it out to Bob Jon...er....Leatherneck again!

Lol, one out of three ain’t bad.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

And why do they reject the gift of grace? Is it of their own choice, or God's? Both, of course, are true. But which is more fundamentally true?

Luk 13:34 - O Jerusalem,Jerusalem, which killest the prophets,and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings,and ye would not! Connect the dots. God did His part they would not do their part.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

And there's the problem. You're making a faulty grammatical argument about a pronoun.

If I get on the PA system and say, "Whoever owns the silver Honda in the parking lot, your lights are on," I'm not implying that anyone within earshot may claim ownership of the Honda. Nor am I making any statement about how he became the owner of the Honda. It simply means that of all the people on the premises, one owns the silver Honda with its lights on, and I'm speaking to him.

Similarly, John 3:16 does not affirm that anyone without restriction has the ability to believe in Christ or has the moral capability to believe. It says, simply, that some will believe, and to them, Christ will grant eternal life.

Lol, whosoever owns a silver Honda as compared to whosoever believes is exactly like comparing a flea to an elephant.

 

[voicecrying]

Calvinism which pretty much believes if you aren’t elected oh well it is God’s decision that you spend eternity in hell.

Who doesn't deserve to spend eternity in hell?

 

[Ransom]

Actually, Scott, I have heard a few, and I do mean just a minute # of Calvies state something similar. It's usually those who've just jumped on the Calvy bandwagon, or those who are hyper.....Not trying to give any credit to Bob Jon...er.Leatherneck...but just making known that there ARE some out there.

I figured he might have been referring to a hyper-Calvinist. The problem with the hypers is that they believe in divine sovereignty at the expense of human responsibility. The Arminians do the exact opposite. They're both wrong: God's sovereign decrees and man's responsibility to repent and believe the Gospel are both true and scriptural. I don't regard hyper-Calvinsts as genuine Calvinists any more than I do Arminians.

 

[Ransom]

Lol, whosoever owns a silver Honda as compared to whosoever believes is exactly like comparing a flea to an elephant.

I guess you're kind of an authority on fleas, at least the mental kind.