Why does it seem the Calvinist teachers are always proud?

T

Timothy

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Like they are extra special or something ...  :eek:

The supreme elect of the elect ...
 
aleshanee said:
did you ever see on the old forum how many times calvinism was described...(by calvinists).. as the "thinking mans" christianity?... or the christianity for those with higher intelligence?..... i saw it many times .. and inevitably every time i got into a discussion with one of them and disagreed with them they always tried to play the "higher level of intelligence and understanding" card on me.... and would walk away from the debate writing me off as too stupid to understand....(and possibly non elect)......  i haven;t seen that happen on this forum and i;m very happy for it..... but i think that might be what timothy is referring to.....
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Absoloutely. I know Calvinists, personally, who are arrogant. It is part of the human condition and not the exclusive realm of Calvinists.

With some who claim the concept of Calvinism, their attitudes demonstrate that their belief in a merciful, sovereign God is just academic with them. When, in fact, the idea of being chosen, in spite of our hostility to God, would lead to humility.

We had a strong Calvinistic family visit our church for a month. They left because some in our church were not quite comfortable with limited atonement. That family believed that a person could not be a believer if they did not subscribe to all 5 "tulip" statements. I STRONGLY opposed the father on this. I am a FULL 5 pointer, but when a person says that a person who does not accept limited atonement, cannot be a believer, that is ADDING to the gospel.

With that said, I have only met two people, in our churches, in the past 20 years who are like this.
 
Seems to me pride is not an attribute that exclusively belongs to Calvinist!  Just saying!
 
The issue I'd have is when they'd issue a challenge such as "not one person has ever showed me a verse that man has a free will" or something to that effect then when you'd show them.. they'd hyper-contextualize(sp?) it...dismiss all arguments contrary to their view then say " See I told you...not one verse!"..Almost like trying to witness to a drunk person.
 
aleshanee said:
[size=12pt]did you ever see on the old forum how many times calvinism was described...(by calvinists).. as the "thinking mans" christianity?... or the christianity for those with higher intelligence?.....
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Absolutely.  In general, I try not to broad brush, but Calvinists I have met (here or in person) share the universal characteristic of intellectual pomposity. 
 
Holy Mole said:
Almost like trying to witness to a drunk person.
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O r discussing bible translation with some KJVO folk.
 
Funny thing to me is that usually my first explanation of my calvinistic stance is that I can't explain it. Whosoever will and chosen before the foundation of the world. The bible teaches both and I believe both. I look forward to having the perfect mind to understand it some day in heaven.
 
Timothy said:
Like they are extra special or something ...  :eek:

The supreme elect of the elect ...
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Second only to the pomposity and pseudo-intellectual pride of the average KJVo nut that I grew up listening to.
 
freelance_christian said:
Second only to the pomposity and pseudo-intellectual pride of the average KJVo nut that I grew up listening to.
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Individuals in each group have problems.  I'm sure there are some humble Calvinists...I just haven't come in contact with them. 
 
JrChurch said:
freelance_christian said:
Second only to the pomposity and pseudo-intellectual pride of the average KJVo nut that I grew up listening to.
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Individuals in each group have problems.  I'm sure there are some humble Calvinists...I just haven't come in contact with them.
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Yes, that's the point.  :)
 
aleshanee said:
did you ever see on the old forum how many times calvinism was described...(by calvinists).. as the "thinking mans" christianity?... or the christianity for those with higher intelligence?..... i saw it many times .. and inevitably every time i got into a discussion with one of them and disagreed with them they always tried to play the "higher level of intelligence and understanding" card on me.... and would walk away from the debate writing me off as too stupid to understand....(and possibly non elect)......  .....
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All we'd have to do is study more like they did and we'd see the light. They were the big time studiers and had all the books. But again, them days were fun though.

aleshanee said:
  i haven;t seen that happen on this forum and i;m very happy for it..... but i think that might be what timothy is referring to.....
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That because there's  most likely not been a big time no holds barred debate here yet.  :)




 
Bob H said:
All we'd have to do is study more like they did and we'd see the light. They were the big time studiers and had all the books. But again, them days were fun though.
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Are you trying to come off like you are one of those who are not Calvinist exalting the superiority of those who are?

::) and LOL


The position has little to do with more study, imo, but rather letting some great and wonderful Bible truths somehow negate another set of equally wonderful Bible truths because, in their minds, they could not co-exist.  They then learned some long and complex sounding theories as to why they could not.
 
Free will and election are both taught in the bible. Therefore I believe both. Not sure if that is a proud or humble position to take.
 
I'm with subllibrm in my position.  I believe both free will and election are taught in scripture.  To major on one to the absolute exclusion of the other is to deny or cherry pick scripture.  My favorite two ways of explaining it are:

1) Imagine the gates of heaven, on the outside of the gate it says "whosoever will may come", when you enter the gate it says "elect according to the foreknowledge of God."

2) In Exodus, God obviously chose the children of Israel for a covenant relationship, yet before the covenant was ratified, the jews gave individual consent. In this way, God showed that 1) He was sovereign in foreordaining the jews to salvation and 2) He was not bringing them out or bringing them into a relationship against their will.

I don't understand it all.  I don't understand God's ways in this and don't think anybody does. 
 
Timothy said:
Like they are extra special or something ...  :eek:

The supreme elect of the elect ...
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It takes a pretty proud individual to post something like this!  ;)
 
pastorryanhayden said:
I'm with subllibrm in my position.  I believe both free will and election are taught in scripture.  To major on one to the absolute exclusion of the other is to deny or cherry pick scripture.  My favorite two ways of explaining it are:

1) Imagine the gates of heaven, on the outside of the gate it says "whosoever will may come", when you enter the gate it says "elect according to the foreknowledge of God."

2) In Exodus, God obviously chose the children of Israel for a covenant relationship, yet before the covenant was ratified, the jews gave individual consent. In this way, God showed that 1) He was sovereign in foreordaining the jews to salvation and 2) He was not bringing them out or bringing them into a relationship against their will.

I don't understand it all.  I don't understand God's ways in this and don't think anybody does.
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Come on, you lean one way or the other. Take a stand man  :) Don't be skerred.  :)




 
Bob H said:
pastorryanhayden said:
I'm with subllibrm in my position.  I believe both free will and election are taught in scripture.  To major on one to the absolute exclusion of the other is to deny or cherry pick scripture.  My favorite two ways of explaining it are:

1) Imagine the gates of heaven, on the outside of the gate it says "whosoever will may come", when you enter the gate it says "elect according to the foreknowledge of God."

2) In Exodus, God obviously chose the children of Israel for a covenant relationship, yet before the covenant was ratified, the jews gave individual consent. In this way, God showed that 1) He was sovereign in foreordaining the jews to salvation and 2) He was not bringing them out or bringing them into a relationship against their will.

I don't understand it all.  I don't understand God's ways in this and don't think anybody does.
Click to expand...


Come on, you lean one way or the other. Take a stand man  :) Don't be skerred.  :)
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Unless you are being sarcastic you illustrate exactly what I said a few posts ago:

"The position has little to do with more study, imo, but rather letting some great and wonderful Bible truths somehow negate another set of equally wonderful Bible truths because, in their minds, they could not co-exist.  They then learned some long and complex sounding theories as to why they could not."
 
aleshanee said:
... i wouldn;t mind discussing it here in a courteous manner.... as long as you realize that while i might have the same reaction to some of calvin;s beliefs as your wife had... i probably won;t change my mind and become a believer in them as she did......;)
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All I was doing was teaching a SS class on the book of Ephesians. I got to verse 4 and all hell broke loose at home :D
Seriously, though... she knew she had no grounds for divorce so she committed herself to not having any children.

Here is what I told her...
"Forget about the word Calvinism... just read and study these passages"
Ephesians 1
Romans 9
John 6

A few years later, a friend of mine did not like the topics of "election" and "sovereignty." He told me that he was going to have a default position and work through these issues. He said, "I am going to default on God's perspective in that He can do whatever He wishes."

Suffice it to say, he became a very good friend and even teaches me now! My wife gave us three beautiful daughters! :D
 
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