Why Donald Trump matters

[biscuit1953]

This is pretty much where I'm coming from.  It doesn't matter whether the American Revolution was scriptural or not as to matters of rebelling against authority for God in His sovereignty raises up nations and puts down nations and history will play out the way He wants it to.  America has been blessed in so many ways since it's beginning and I believe the main reason is the Judeo-Christian principles the founding fathers used to base it on. 

The America I now live in is so foreign to the one I grew up in I no longer recognize it.  God does judge nations and I believe judgment is coming on this country and whoever the next president is will not stop it.  The Republicans are no better than the Democrats when it comes to turning things around and they will do nothing in terms of pushing back against killing babies and promoting sodomy. 

Jesus taught that some sins are greater than others (John 19:11) and the sins now embraced and promoted in this country will not be ignored by God. 

 

[rsc2a]

While the sins of slavery, sanctioned marital rape, gross child abuse and such weren't all that bad?

 

[biscuit1953]

While the sins of slavery, sanctioned marital rape, gross child abuse and such weren't all that bad?

620,000 men dying in the Civil War is not judgment?  God destroyed nations for sodomy and child sacrifices.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

While the sins of slavery, sanctioned marital rape, gross child abuse and such weren't all that bad?

1. Slavery - is slavery considered a sin in the Bible?  (Serious question - as much as I don't agree with slavery, I don't recall it being cited as a sin.)

2. Sanctioned marital rape?  Never heard of that.

3. Gross child abuse - that's as bad as or worse than killing the child?

Sinful behavior was and is a bad thing, was and always will be with us.  What's I object to today is the push to "normalize" it.  It's not just that abortion is wrong, it's that its proponents want everyone to accept it as morally good.  It's not that homosexuality is wrong, it's that its proponents want everyone to accept it as morally good. 

Think of it this way.  I don't know anything about sanctioned marital rape, so let's just say it's wife abuse.  There have always been cases of abusing one's wife, and that isn't going to stop.  But it's one thing to abuse your wife and hide it out of shame because it's not publically acceptable, even if you can legally get away with it.  It's quite another to lead a crusade to get everyone to accept abusing your wife as a good thing.  Wife abuse is bad either way.  But a society that frowns upon this behavior is better than a society that promotes it. 

 

[biscuit1953]

While the sins of slavery, sanctioned marital rape, gross child abuse and such weren't all that bad?

1. Slavery - is slavery considered a sin in the Bible?  (Serious question - as much as I don't agree with slavery, I don't recall it being cited as a sin.)

2. Sanctioned marital rape?  Never heard of that.

3. Gross child abuse - that's as bad as or worse than killing the child?

Sinful behavior was and is a bad thing, was and always will be with us.  What's I object to today is the push to "normalize" it.  It's not just that abortion is wrong, it's that its proponents want everyone to accept it as morally good.  It's not that homosexuality is wrong, it's that its proponents want everyone to accept it as morally good. 

Think of it this way.  I don't know anything about sanctioned marital rape, so let's just say it's wife abuse.  There have always been cases of abusing one's wife, and that isn't going to stop.  But it's one thing to abuse your wife and hide it out of shame because it's not publically acceptable, even if you can legally get away with it.  It's quite another to lead a crusade to get everyone to accept abusing your wife as a good thing.  Wife abuse is bad either way.  But a society that frowns upon this behavior is better than a society that promotes it.

While it is true that slavery isn't condemned in the Bible those who believe the Civil War was fought strictly over slavery cannot ignore the fact that 620,000 men dying is more than a bad recession.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

While it is true that slavery isn't condemned in the Bible those who believe the Civil War was fought strictly over slavery cannot ignore the fact that 620,000 men dying is more than a bad recession.

Right, and I believe slavery is wrong, wrong, wrong. 

My point, however, was that we never saw wives or kids with bruised faces marching in a "abuse pride" parade. 

 

[rsc2a]

Re: Marital rape

Until a few decades ago, it was perfectly legal for a husband to rape his wife based in the idea that she didn't have any standing to refuse his advances.

And, yes, I would say slavery is sinful, and I believe Paul makes that clear. As far as it being allowed, Jesus addressed this when He talked about divorce.

 

[praise_yeshua]

While it is true that slavery isn't condemned in the Bible those who believe the Civil War was fought strictly over slavery cannot ignore the fact that 620,000 men dying is more than a bad recession.

Right, and I believe slavery is wrong, wrong, wrong. 

My point, however, was that we never saw wives or kids with bruised faces marching in a "abuse pride" parade.

Slavery isn't wrong. The "slavery" of America was wrong. I personally wouldn't practice slavery but one can't ignore that slavery is the result of individual sin and its ramifications throughout history.

Take away the idea of the "servant" and the "slave" from society and you have removed the vast majority of natural revelation given to humanity.

Hence... the western cultural result of "we have need of nothing".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Re: Marital rape

Until a few decades ago, it was perfectly legal for a husband to rape his wife based in the idea that she didn't have any standing to refuse his advances.

And, yes, I would say slavery is sinful, and I believe Paul makes that clear. As far as it being allowed, Jesus addressed this when He talked about divorce.

You're a IDIOT!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Re: Marital rape

Until a few decades ago, it was perfectly legal for a husband to rape his wife based in the idea that she didn't have any standing to refuse his advances.

You mean this?

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So, what you're saying is that the wife deprived her husband because they consented to give themselves over to fasting and prayer for a time, but the husband changed his mind and demanded sex?

And, yes, I would say slavery is sinful, and I believe Paul makes that clear. As far as it being allowed, Jesus addressed this when He talked about divorce.

What Paul makes clear is that slavery was, as you put it, perfectly legal. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Re: Marital rape

Until a few decades ago, it was perfectly legal for a husband to rape his wife based in the idea that she didn't have any standing to refuse his advances.

You mean this?

4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So, what you're saying is that the wife deprived her husband because they consented to give themselves over to fasting and prayer for a time, but the husband changed his mind and demanded sex?

And, yes, I would say slavery is sinful, and I believe Paul makes that clear. As far as it being allowed, Jesus addressed this when He talked about divorce.

What Paul makes clear is that slavery was, as you put it, perfectly legal.

Its no use. You can't talk to that NUT about anything.

Just because there were no laws governing martial rape until the 70s.... doesn't mean it wasn't socially unacceptable. The same thing with beating a child. This IDIOT is always full of drama.

I mean.... abortion is legal. So is sodomy. I don't judge right or wrong based on civil or criminal law as defined by sinful man.

 

[rsc2a]

It is depraved version of Christianity you follow if you think a husband has the right to force himself on his wife when she says no.

And crucifixion was legal. That doesn't mean it was right. Philemon's letter makes Paul's views pretty transparent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is depraved version of Christianity you follow if you think a husband has the right to force himself on his wife when she says no.

And crucifixion was legal. That doesn't mean it was right. Philemon's letter makes Paul's views pretty transparent.

You've obviously never read Philemon.

You're just a troll!!!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

It is depraved version of Christianity you follow if you think a husband has the right to force himself on his wife when she says no.

It is wrong for a husband to force himself on his wife when she says no.  But it's a wrong version of Christianity for his wife to say no, except for an agreement with her husband to spend time in prayer and fasting.  I would add there are other exceptions when the husband shouldn't even ask (the wife is sick, etc.) but that's covered by Ephesians in how a husband is supposed to treat his wife.  By the way, insisting on sex inappropriately is not just a husband issue. 

And crucifixion was legal. That doesn't mean it was right. Philemon's letter makes Paul's views pretty transparent.

I didn't say slavery was right.  But you cited Paul in defense of saying it was sinful when Paul really only treated it like it was legal. 

I also don't get your point about Philemon.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I didn't say slavery was right. 

This world was NEVER intended to be a utopia where no one ever suffers for doing wrong. We are trying to build a society where there is NEVER any consequences for sin. A society where we need "NOTHING". A self righteous place where we've created the perfect liberal utopia so Jesus will be so proud of us that HE comes back with arms wide open and everyone gets endless cookies  and cake.

That's the "utopia" this NUT envisions.

 

[rsc2a]

Oddly how much that utopia looks like Eden and the restoration of all things...you know those things believers should long for.

 

[rsc2a]

RT - That's the point. There are exceptions and husbands should respect their wives in this (and vice versa). That doesn't change the fact that just a few decades ago marital rape was considered impossible because you cannot rape what YOU have a right to take.

And you are not saying slavery is okay, but someone is...

And Paul came just short of commanding Philemon to release Onisimus.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Oddly how much that utopia looks like Eden and the restoration of all things...you know those things believers should long for.

We look for NEW heavens and NEW earth. We aren't building a utopia for Christ to use as His own. He'll do that part Himself. He doesn't need you.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Oddly how much that utopia looks like Eden and the restoration of all things...you know those things believers should long for.

We look for NEW heavens and NEW earth. We aren't building a utopia for Christ to use as His own. He'll do that part Himself. He doesn't need you.

So I guess the idea of 'kingdom work' is foreign to you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

RT - That's the point. There are exceptions and husbands should respect their wives in this (and vice versa). That doesn't change the fact that just a few decades ago marital rape was considered impossible because you cannot rape what YOU have a right to take.

And you are not saying slavery is okay, but someone is...

And Paul came just short of commanding Philemon to release Onisimus.

Enacting such laws didn't change much of anything. It didn't happen often and it wasn't social acceptable. You're being your typical self. Inflating condition to meet your own liberal agenda.

Tell you what. Show me stats on how many times martial rape laws are being actively prosecuted!!!!????

You up for it? Didn't think so.....

Paul never came just short of commanding Philemon to do anything. You're a blathering NUT.