Why hast thou forsaken me?

[Ron S.]

Ummm, welcome to our forum and thanks for responding to my thread. Would you care to take a stab at explaining your answer in relationship to my question?

I sincerely apologize if what said came across as arrogant or offensive in any way.
This should not have been my first post. I should have stuck with pleasantries for a while. I promise you that my intention was edification. I'm new here but I have been saved by the grace of God through faith for nearly 40 years and I love talking about God and his word.
Please disregard everything I said and focus on what Mr. Ransom said.
I really appreciate your welcome but I'll probably just go elsewhere.
Keep looking for answers and Merry Christmas!

 

[ALAYMAN]

I sincerely apologize if what said came across as arrogant or offensive in any way.
This should not have been my first post. I should have stuck with pleasantries for a while. I promise you that my intention was edification. I'm new here but I have been saved by the grace of God through faith for nearly 40 years and I love talking about God and his word.
Please disregard everything I said and focus on what Mr. Ransom said.
I really appreciate your welcome but I'll probably just go elsewhere.
Keep looking for answers and Merry Christmas!

I have been very busy lately so consequently don't have a lot of time right now to banter. I appreciate your questions so far, even hypothetically if I don't agree, and will address some interesting points that you have raised and some of the posts to others. Don't run anywhere just yet, stick around. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

 

[Edwards]

When Christ was made sin for us on the cross what was the extent and nature of separation that caused him to cry out my God my God why has thou forsaken me?

Christ upon the cross could only experience the wrath and judgement of God. He was forsaken by the Father because our sin was upon Him. He could not apply the 23rd Psalm to Himself (.....for Thou art with Me") but He could apply Psalm 22 to Himself ("My God, My God......). Being forsaken by the Father is the ultimate penalty for sin and is much worse than being thrown into a Lake of fire (which will occur to the unrepentant). Christ truly paid it all.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Christ upon the cross could only experience the wrath and judgement of God. He was forsaken by the Father because our sin was upon Him. He could not apply the 23rd Psalm to Himself (.....for Thou art with Me") but He could apply Psalm 22 to Himself ("My God, My God......). Being forsaken by the Father is the ultimate penalty for sin and is much worse than being thrown into a Lake of fire (which will occur to the unrepentant). Christ truly paid it all.

So good to see you again brother! Hope you have a Merry Christmas!

 

[ALAYMAN]

No separation at all.

Ontologically, there is one God, indivisible, as the Athanasian Creed affirms: "We worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance." To claim the Father forsook the Son is to say God forsook himself.

The Father and Son are at unity in purpose. The Son does the will of the Father, and the Father loves the Son (John 5:19-20). "I do as the Father has commanded me, so that the world may know that I love the Father" (John 14:13). Jesus' death on the cross pleased the Father, because the Son was doing the work the Father sent him to do. It is impossible that the Son could have failed to do what was set out for him, or that the Father would not be pleased with the work of the Son, because there is no conflict of will between the persons of the Trinity.

Psychologically, Christ's suffering may have felt like he was forsaken. But he had to have known otherwise. Psalm 22 begins with the suffering of the servant, but it ends with salvation for the people. It was a theological statement, not a cry of despair.

I agree with you about ontology, purpose, and accomplishment completely. Where I see room for discussion is your statement about "psychology". If we are to grant the truth that Christ was 100% God and 100% man then in his humanity, just as he experienced real temptation, he experienced real pain and other components like ours. He had never not known the closeness with the father that he was experiencing in that moment where he became sin for us, and as such I think it's fair to say that expression of forsakeness this was a real existential cry. Just as David ultimately knew, as expressed in the latter portions of Psalm 22, that God would not abandon him, Christ knew that as well. But knowing that and experiencing the pain of sin and separation is something of a shared experience, emotionally speaking at least.

 

[ALAYMAN]

This sums up what I believe about the degree or kind of separation expressed by Jesus when he said "why hast thou forsaken me"...



Jesus' cry does not in any way diminish His deity. Jesus does not cease being God before, during, or after this. Jesus' cry does not divide His human nature from His divine person or destroy the Trinity. Nor does it detach Him from the Holy Spirit. The Son lacks the comforts of the Spirit, but He does not lose the holiness of the Spirit. And finally, it does not cause Him to disavow His mission. Both the Father and Son knew from all eternity that Jesus would become the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world (Acts 15:18). It is unthinkable that the Son of God might question what is happening or be perplexed when His Father's loving presence departs.



Jesus is expressing the agony of unanswered supplication (Ps. 22:1–2). Unanswered, Jesus feels forgotten of God. He is also expressing the agony of unbearable stress. It is the kind of "roaring" mentioned in Psalm 22: the roar of desperate agony without rebellion. It is the hellish cry uttered when the undiluted wrath of God overwhelms the soul. It is heart-piercing, heaven-piercing, and hell-piercing. Further, Jesus is expressing the agony of unmitigated sin.



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