Why Independant Fundamental Baptist are Stupid

[christundivided]

You don‘t have to believe me. Thats your perogative. I stand by my recollection of my travels. No need to survey. Your assumptions are grossly excagerated. The guys who on here who either travelled preaching, or did IFB deputation are the guys who saw the majority of  churches. They are the ones who would have knowledge of such things.

Sure.... you're all legends in the "recollection" community.

Maybe a forum survey? Would you accept those #s

You survey away if it makes you feel better. In my case, I was looking for portraits. I was told about a church that split because a particular preacher was not included in their hall of faith. I found it bizarre, so, when I travelled, I looked, and found only one church with portraits or a hall of faith. Now, mind you, I am not ina camp. If you travelled inside a camp, in particular the FBCH camp,you might find different. I am simply relating my personal experience, I cannot speak for others.

This is tangential to the point, but I raised the issue once before that many "churches" (mostly large ones) are identified by their pastor.  It's a tangential point because this is not limited to any denomination.  For example, all I have to say is, "Cornerstone Church in San Antonio".  I bet anyone here can tell me who the pastor is.  And if you live in San Antonio, you'll often see his picture in the TV-Style billboard outside the church as you drive by. 

Or how about Saddleback church?  Lakewood church? 

I even recall posting an article with a long list of churches identified by pastor with their pictures. 

So if it's a problem (and I think it is), it's not limited to IFB.

Who said I was limiting to just to IFBdum. They are part of it.... none the less.

 

[Bruh]

First. I don't believe you. I'm certain that you didn't pay enough attention to even notice it. Could you do a survey and get an accurate #?

Are you serious? Do you even read your posts before posting? Why would anyone in their right mind agree to enter into a debate with you if this is how you argue. "I don't believe you"? Are you still in Junior High?

Let me break it down for you. There are several reasons why I don't believe him.... I didn't go into all those reason. Obviously he could care less about a portrait of a pastor in a church. If he doesn't care to know, then why would I accept what he says he might remember about it?

You're "certain" that he didn't pay attention? You don't want to debate; you want to cram your made-up statistics down our throats.

No. I offered an alternative. Now granted. None of these are scientific. Why do you feel I should take your word for something when you don't care to recognize it or not?

You have no basis for your opinion other than personal observation; yet, you refuse to accept personal observation from anyone who disagrees with you. You are "certain" that they weren't paying attention.

You sure are proud of your end of the same boat we're both are in.

Maybe you weren't paying attention. Maybe your forgone conclusions biased you to the point that you saw portraits of pastors where there were none. Are you sure you weren't looking at the missions wall?

Mission walls? Do they have them in the church too???? With portraits of them? Man you guys sure are proud of one another.

Any prayer members on the walls? Any widows indeed? Any deacons? or Music directories?

Is there ANYONE ELSE BESIDES preachers you love to honor?

Friendly advice: take an online debate class.

This isn't a formal debate. I have offered to formally debate several of you and you're all cowards.

Do you really think that you deserve that much of my time? 

 

[christundivided]

First. I don't believe you. I'm certain that you didn't pay enough attention to even notice it. Could you do a survey and get an accurate #?

Are you serious? Do you even read your posts before posting? Why would anyone in their right mind agree to enter into a debate with you if this is how you argue. "I don't believe you"? Are you still in Junior High?

Let me break it down for you. There are several reasons why I don't believe him.... I didn't go into all those reason. Obviously he could care less about a portrait of a pastor in a church. If he doesn't care to know, then why would I accept what he says he might remember about it?

You're "certain" that he didn't pay attention? You don't want to debate; you want to cram your made-up statistics down our throats.

No. I offered an alternative. Now granted. None of these are scientific. Why do you feel I should take your word for something when you don't care to recognize it or not?

You have no basis for your opinion other than personal observation; yet, you refuse to accept personal observation from anyone who disagrees with you. You are "certain" that they weren't paying attention.

You sure are proud of your end of the same boat we're both are in.

Maybe you weren't paying attention. Maybe your forgone conclusions biased you to the point that you saw portraits of pastors where there were none. Are you sure you weren't looking at the missions wall?

Mission walls? Do they have them in the church too???? With portraits of them? Man you guys sure are proud of one another.

Any prayer members on the walls? Any widows indeed? Any deacons? or Music directories?

Is there ANYONE ELSE BESIDES preachers you love to honor?

Friendly advice: take an online debate class.

This isn't a formal debate. I have offered to formally debate several of you and you're all cowards.

Do you really think that you deserve that much of my time?

It takes no more time than you've already spent arguing with me. You can't have formal debate with dozens of people all ganging up on one person. You guys all clan up together and the argument goes in dozens of directions.

I'll limit the debate to the value of being Baptist. You make the case for it and I'll make the case against it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

My anecdotal evidence is contrary to the anecdotal evidence in the OP.
Is it possible that a group called "independent" might not all be the same?

Give us some facts CU. It is a logical fallacy to assume all IFB are the same as the small portion that you have come into contact with.

I'm so glad you said this....

Do you know how a classification works don't you? If IFBs are so different.... then what value is the classification?

You can't make this up.....

Monty Python - Life of Brian - Your're all different

Crowd in unison:  "Yes, we're all individuals."
Crowd in unison:  "Yes, we're all different."
One person:  "I'm not."

 

[lnf]

christundivided, here is my reply:

Romans 16:18:  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

In context, it is important to also read verse 17:  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them.

So, Paul warned them that certain people were teaching false doctrine, and because they were persuasive or masterful speakers, some of the more gullible among them were fooled into believing it.

I suppose I missed the point you were trying to make, because I don’t see how deceiving the hearts of the simple relates to whether or not we call people stupid. 

If anything, I think the false teachers might have used flattery to draw their “victims” in.  Is that why you call people stupid?  So you don’t inadvertently flatter anyone?  Perhaps you are trying to follow Proverbs 28:23:  He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.  I don’t know what is in your heart, but if you want to share it, I’ll listen.

I like what Ephesians 4:14-16 has to say about correcting false teaching:

14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Speaking the truth in love is the key to turning people away from false doctrine.  I also like Proverbs 25:15:  By long forbearing is a prince persuaded, and a soft tongue breaketh the bone.

In other words, more hearts are convicted through a respectful tone than with hurled insults. 

In closing, I pray my reply is in keeping with Proverbs 31:26:  She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.

 

[ALAYMAN]

It's amusing to me that this inane topic has garnered so much attention.

 

[Green Beret]

It's amusing to me that this inane topic has garnered so much attention.

Stoopid is as stoopid does. It is nothing more than the morbid curiosity of man - Internet rubber-necking, if you will. CU's is fun to watch as he spirals into a mental melt down.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Part of the attention is that almost all IFB's are willing to defend themselves at least at some level.

 

[Green Beret]

This isn't a formal debate. I have offered to formally debate several of you and you're all cowards.

Let me escalate this a bit by being blunt and plain - "christundivided" you are a liar.

You have dissected every reply of mine with twists of anti-logic and inane emotional ramblings that scream "I need help!".

However, you have deliberately ignored my response saying that I would be more than willing to debate you on this subject.

With Admin moderating, I will tear your false premise to shreds in less time than it takes to read an average day's worth of the tripe and trash you post with cowardly anonymity.

And, to make it interesting, I'll add this:

Whoever is deemed the loser of the debate by the judge (or judges) will have to PERMANENTLY leave the FFF and never return.

Well, what do you say? Are you up to it you lying coward?

 

[Citadel of Truth]

Have you meet me? Apply the same standard or are you capable or rational thought. Just how many people have you meet from here?

Can you not see the hypocrisy and double standard here? Never mind; I know you can't. You have your "I hate all IFBs" blinders on.

You've lumped all of us, whom you never met, into one general category. Then, you cry "foul" when tell you what we think of you. You would be no fun to debate at all.

Coward? Apparently you've never met my mother-in-law! You're a sissy compared to her!

 

[christundivided]

It's amusing to me that this inane topic has garnered so much attention.

Thanks for keeping it going..... I mean you haven't paid any attention to it at all.

You can't make this stuff up..... You come in here wondering why the topic has garnered so much attention and you can't stay away from it.... Its hilarious....

 

[christundivided]

Part of the attention is that almost all IFB's are willing to defend themselves at least at some level.

Oh yeah... You're doing such a good job at it.

 

[Darkwing Duck]

My anecdotal evidence is contrary to the anecdotal evidence in the OP.
Is it possible that a group called "independent" might not all be the same?

Give us some facts CU. It is a logical fallacy to assume all IFB are the same as the small portion that you have come into contact with.

I'm so glad you said this....

Do you know how a classification works don't you? If IFBs are so different.... then what value is the classification?

You can't make this up.....

First the classification is based on beliefs not behavior. So you are complaining about behavior in your OP and I am saying that they can be classified doctrinally as IFB yet still have different behaviors.
Secondly, you stated in the OP that they should be called Christians as if you yourself don't understand how classification works. So don't blame me. If IFB's changed to calling themselves Christians how would you know which churches to avoid?

 

[christundivided]

Have you meet me? Apply the same standard or are you capable or rational thought. Just how many people have you meet from here?

Can you not see the hypocrisy and double standard here? Never mind; I know you can't. You have your "I hate all IFBs" blinders on.

I generally hate hypocrisy in many things. I'm just dealing with IFBs at the moment. Its really easy to do. You say something about one of them and they all come out from under the walls like cockroaches.

You've lumped all of us, whom you never met, into one general category. Then, you cry "foul" when tell you what we think of you. You would be no fun to debate at all.

Just how many years do you people put up with those like Schaap? Just how long? It happens to you again and again. Time and time again. You get burned and burned and burned and burned again and you wonder why it happens.....

ITS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GROW THEM ANY DIFFERENT. You can't plant turnip seeds and expect tomatoes to come up. IF they're not screwing your daughters, they're taking your money. If they're not taking your money.... they're setting up a little kingdom.... to TAKE your money. While they are setting up their little "kingdoms".... they're telling you Jesus was a baptist and that "baptist" is the only way to be right with God. They're telling you shouldn't pay any attention to anyone else. Don't listen to anyone else. Just stay right here and you'll be safe.... all the while they're feeding their own bellies at your expense.

Keep giving them your money. Keep giving them your time. Keep giving them your sons and daughters.... They'll take really good care of them for you.

Coward? Apparently you've never met my mother-in-law! You're a sissy compared to her!

Obviously you're proud of her. Has she spent any time in jail? Maybe we can have someone visit her. Maybe they can win her to Christ and she can follow that person around like a good little convert for the rest of her new leader's life..... You know... Cause that's just how "baptist" roll.....

 

[christundivided]

My anecdotal evidence is contrary to the anecdotal evidence in the OP.
Is it possible that a group called "independent" might not all be the same?

Give us some facts CU. It is a logical fallacy to assume all IFB are the same as the small portion that you have come into contact with.

I'm so glad you said this....

Do you know how a classification works don't you? If IFBs are so different.... then what value is the classification?

You can't make this up.....

First the classification is based on beliefs not behavior. So you are complaining about behavior in your OP

So beliefs don't shape behavior? The OP dealt the behavior of the classification of a certain belief system. You can interchange the words everyhow you want. It doesn't change the classification.

and I am saying that they can be classified doctrinally as IFB yet still have different behaviors.

They can't have a different behavior that would change their beliefs. I don't believe like them because it makes me behave like them. To say anything otherwise is absolute nonsense. We are what we believe. It is who we are.

Secondly, you stated in the OP that they should be called Christians as if you yourself don't understand how classification works. So don't blame me. If IFB's changed to calling themselves Christians how would you know which churches to avoid?

I didn't write I Peter nor 1 Corinthians.

You're right about the IFB classification. If you find a IFB church.... YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM IT AT ALL COST.

You can't make this up.... You're lost in your own rhetoric. You say that the IFB classification doesn't mean anything because they don't all behave the same way. You then proceed to make a case that such a classification is good because it means they all believe the same way.

Do you know what they call people that don't behave the same way as they believe? Do you? Do you even know the word?

Idiot.....

 

[Citadel of Truth]

...you can't stay away from it.... Its hilarious....

All you have done is deflect when you don't have an answer. You toss out red herrings like they're on sale at Piggly Wiggly. You have no substance. You have no logic. You have no knowledge of what it really means to be a Baptist. All you have is a burr under your saddle and you got thrown off once or twice and now you're here trying to convince all of us that you're an expert on horses.

I, for one, will enable you no longer. I encourage all my stupid brothers and sisters to do the same.

 

[FundamentalDan]

So you've never seen the huge portraits of the pastor hanging in the average IFB church? You've got to be kidding me. I take it you don't have a problem with LYING

I take it you don't have a problem with being a false accuser of the brethren.  You not only apparently know my intelligence level, but also know exactly what I have or have not seen?  There is not a huge portrait of the pastor, who is me, in my church.  Nor was there one in the IFB church I grew up in, though that pastor was pretty self-important.  Nor have I seen one in most of the churches I have ever been in.  I did pass by First Baptist of Hammond one time and see the huge mural on the side of the building.  I thought it was over the top.  You show your absolute ignorance of most independent, fundamental Baptist churches that I have been in.  That is the problem with statements that are generalized like yours.  I know of a few independent Baptist churches that have drums, several that have ladies wearing pants in the service, some that have praise and worship music, and even a few that do not use the KJV.  I do not agree with all of them, but they are all considered independent Baptist.  That is why we are independent. 

 

[Green Beret]

RE-POST FOR THE COWARD

This isn't a formal debate. I have offered to formally debate several of you and you're all cowards.

Let me escalate this a bit by being blunt and plain - "christundivided" you are a liar.

You have dissected every reply of mine with twists of anti-logic and inane emotional ramblings that scream "I need help!".

However, you have deliberately ignored my response saying that I would be more than willing to debate you on this subject.

With Admin moderating, I will tear your false premise to shreds in less time than it takes to read an average day's worth of the tripe and trash you post with cowardly anonymity.

And, to make it interesting, I'll add this:

Whoever is deemed the loser of the debate by the judge (or judges) will have to PERMANENTLY leave the FFF and never return.

Well, what do you say? Are you up to it you lying coward?

 

[christundivided]

...you can't stay away from it.... Its hilarious....

All you have done is deflect when you don't have an answer. You toss out red herrings like they're on sale at Piggly Wiggly. You have no substance. You have no logic. You have no knowledge of what it really means to be a Baptist. All you have is a burr under your saddle and you got thrown off once or twice and now you're here trying to convince all of us that you're an expert on horses.

I, for one, will enable you no longer. I encourage all my stupid brothers and sisters to do the same.

You never dealt with the 3 points I made in the OP. Where are the red herrings in the OP?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

My anecdotal evidence is contrary to the anecdotal evidence in the OP.
Is it possible that a group called "independent" might not all be the same?

Give us some facts CU. It is a logical fallacy to assume all IFB are the same as the small portion that you have come into contact with.

I'm so glad you said this....

Do you know how a classification works don't you? If IFBs are so different.... then what value is the classification?

You can't make this up.....

I suppose that you acknowledge that the rest of my post is correct. That your OP has no facts and is based on anecdotal evidence?