Women Invited To Apply To U.S. Army's Elite, All-Male Ranger School

I don't have any concerns about it from a Christian PoV, only from a military PoV.
Will there be enough women who can pass  to make it worth continuing?
And how will it work in the Ranger units?

The Russians and Israelis have proven that women can be good snipers.
The USAF has proven that women can be good fighter pilots.
Rangers? We shall see.
 
The USAF fighter pilots we know do not privately approve of female combat fighter pilots.  They just can't express it openly.
 
The Bible gives only one example, Deborah. She was held in high esteem.

So for a Christian worldview... it appears there is nothing really against it.
 
FSSL said:
The Bible gives only one example, Deborah. She was held in high esteem.

So for a Christian worldview... it appears there is nothing really against it.

Perhaps your study of the topic is either Biblically misinformed, biased, or incomplete?  For starters...

Deu 22:5  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

H3627
כּלי
kelı̂y
kel-ee'
From H3615; something prepared, that is, any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearer]), artillery, bag, carriage, + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, X one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, + psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, + whatsoever.


And I thought you leaned towards Biblical complementarianism. ;)
 
I'm for it women have been told our whole lives we can't do that....Esther and Deborah are great examples............

 
ALAYMAN said:
FSSL said:
The Bible gives only one example, Deborah. She was held in high esteem.

So for a Christian worldview... it appears there is nothing really against it.

Perhaps your study of the topic is either Biblically misinformed, biased, or incomplete?  For starters...

Deu 22:5  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

H3627
כּלי
kelı̂y
kel-ee'
From H3615; something prepared, that is, any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearer]), artillery, bag, carriage, + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, X one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, + psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, + whatsoever.


And I thought you leaned towards Biblical complementarianism. ;)

And yet you completely ignored the one example he provided...
 
ALAYMAN said:
Perhaps your study of the topic is either Biblically misinformed, biased, or incomplete?  For starters...

[Ransom makes note that today, at least, Deut. 22:5 isn't about women wearing pants]
 
ALAYMAN said:
Perhaps your study of the topic is either Biblically misinformed, biased, or incomplete?  For starters...

Deu 22:5  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

This is where Strongs will lead you astray. The Hebrew word is a very broad word. Why use the semantic part referring to military equipment? Are women, I  your opinion, also srong to strap a piece of furniture to their backs? ;) You are wrong to foist a part of the definition that does not fit the context.

The context refers to transvestitism. Did you come up with this on your own? I am interested in knowing where you got this line of thinking.

And I thought you leaned towards Biblical complementarianism. ;)

I do. I also know that complementarians can go too far. I disagree with quite a bit of their restrictions (e.g., military service and political office).

Like rsc2a said... what about Deborah?
 
FSSL said:
The Bible gives only one example, Deborah. She was held in high esteem.

So for a Christian worldview... it appears there is nothing really against it.

Putting your example in proper perspective....and to challenge you on the subject....

Barak is the one that fought the battle. Not Deborah. Not to mention the fact the Song of Deborah and Barak is somewhat different in Chapter 5 than the details of the battle in Chapter 4.

Even so, this begs the question. Deborah and other "prophetesses" in the Scripture are a very small minority. Very small. There only a few examples among hundreds of men. As such, why would you propose and "equal" status with "men" in such roles? Its rather obvious, this does not match any biblical example.
 
ALAYMAN said:
FSSL said:
The Bible gives only one example, Deborah. She was held in high esteem.

So for a Christian worldview... it appears there is nothing really against it.

Perhaps your study of the topic is either Biblically misinformed, biased, or incomplete?  For starters...

Deu 22:5  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

H3627
כּלי
kelı̂y
kel-ee'
From H3615; something prepared, that is, any apparatus (as an implement, utensil, dress, vessel or weapon): - armour ([-bearer]), artillery, bag, carriage, + furnish, furniture, instrument, jewel, that is made of, X one from another, that which pertaineth, pot, + psaltery, sack, stuff, thing, tool, vessel, ware, weapon, + whatsoever.


And I thought you leaned towards Biblical complementarianism. ;)

They can fight as long as they don't wear pants!  ;D
 
Deborah was clearly the exception rather than the rule.

As a veteran, my experience tells me this is not a good thing in general.  In the MP Corps there were standards in height, weight and physical abilities that were required to perform the work.  The standards for men were different than for women.  Women did not need to be as tall, nor did they have to meet the physical requirements that the men had to meet.  So we had half of the MP's meeting a certain standard and half meeting a sub-standard...but both required to do the same job.

If...the standards remain the same for both male and female to be a part of the Rangers, and all must meet those elite standards to be a Ranger I have no problem.  But if there are two set of standards which actually weaken the force and create a dangerous situation...I say no.  So only qualified individuals should ever wear the Ranger tab...period!
 
aleshanee said:
i really don;t understand this disdain and even fear some men seem to have of any female who is not weak timid and totally dependent on them......

Sounds like you understand it quite well. 
 
Prin.Ciples said:
Even so, this begs the question. Deborah and other "prophetesses" in the Scripture are a very small minority. Very small. There only a few examples among hundreds of men. As such, why would you propose and "equal" status with "men" in such roles? Its rather obvious, this does not match any biblical example.

She was "with" Barak in mustering the troops. Judges 4:10. We are not given full details of what she did. She was definitely considered having equal status with Barak.

The fact that we have even one positive example, in a male-dominated society, proves that God had no scruples with qualified women engaging in warfare.

I agree with T-Bone... let's not modify the requirements.
 
aleshanee said:
and by the way..... don;t forget jael.... she not only picked up weapons.. (or implements) ...pertaining to a man but she also nailed an enemy generals head to the floor with them......... was she wrong for doing that?....... the army she came to the aid of at the time didn;t seem to think so..........

Exactly... thank you... I don't know why she didn't come to mind.
 
FSSL said:
Prin.Ciples said:
Even so, this begs the question. Deborah and other "prophetesses" in the Scripture are a very small minority. Very small. There only a few examples among hundreds of men. As such, why would you propose and "equal" status with "men" in such roles? Its rather obvious, this does not match any biblical example.

She was "with" Barak in mustering the troops. Judges 4:10. We are not given full details of what she did. She was definitely considered having equal status with Barak.

The fact that we have even one positive example, in a male-dominated society, proves that God had no scruples with qualified women engaging in warfare.

I agree with T-Bone... let's not modify the requirements.

There is no reason to believe she participated in any fighting. Your comparison fails.

The "male dominanted" society is nothing more than fiction. Peter called the female "the weaker vessel". While females certianly aren't "weak" in some areas, they certainly are "weaker" when it comes to combat.
 
T-Bone said:
If...the standards remain the same for both male and female to be a part of the Rangers, and all must meet those elite standards to be a Ranger I have no problem.  But if there are two set of standards which actually weaken the force and create a dangerous situation...I say no.  So only qualified individuals should ever wear the Ranger tab...period!

I agree that the standards should be the same for Rangers.
 
FSSL said:
aleshanee said:
and by the way..... don;t forget jael.... she not only picked up weapons.. (or implements) ...pertaining to a man but she also nailed an enemy generals head to the floor with them......... was she wrong for doing that?....... the army she came to the aid of at the time didn;t seem to think so..........

Exactly... thank you... I don't know why she didn't come to mind.

Killing a man while he sleep isn't the same thing as standing face to face and toe to toe with someone in hand to hand combat.

I'd give a rifle to any women that was a good shot.... but don't pretend they can "fill in" equally in every combat role.
 
ALAYMAN said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/17/female-rangers-us-army_n_5832428.html

Women on the frontlines of combat, from a Christian worldview, is it a good or bad thing?
This is a topic I can address from first person experience and offer my take on what should be the proper Christian worldview.

Just a pure military point of view, from someone who served, it is folly to place women in combat roles.

From the perspective of someone who served in an elite combat unit and had the training, it is a form of insanity to open Ranger School to them (see my supporting information below).

From a biblical worldview, women should not be in combat. Read the scriptures. It is not that hard to understand. And, no, the “exceptions” are not the rule. They are not really exceptions:

Deborah (Judges 4) - No where do you read that Deborah went into combat. She went with Barak as the army deployed all the way to Mt. Tabor. It appears Sisera was positioning himself for what he thought would be an enveloping flank attack based on information he received from the Kenites (V.11). Then, in V14, we read that Deborah told Barak it was time to attack and that the Lord had delivered him into his hand. He attacked. Three times we read Barak, without Deborah, engaged in combat:
“So Barak went down...” (V.14B)
“...with the edge of the sword before Barak;” (V.15)
“But Barak pursued after the chariots...” (V.16)
Since the scriptures are so detailed explaining when Deborah was with Barak and when she wasn’t, it should be understood that she was not with him during direct combat. What was her role? A prophetess that went along with Barak because he did not show the confidence or character he, as a man called of God to war, should have had.

Jael (Judges 4) - Jael did not go into combat. She convinced Sisera to enter into her tent while her husband was away and nailed his head to the ground as he slept (V.17-21). Not hard to understand and there is no room for doubt. She was not in combat.

The “certain woman” (Judges 9:53) - How about the woman who dropped the millstone on Abimelech’s head? She was in the tower of the city and used “implements at hand” in defense. God used it as a thing to shame Abimelech. So much so that he requested that a sword bearer kill him so it couldn’t be said he was killed by a woman.

From the above scriptural examples we learn that, while women were not in direct combat in the Bible, you most certainly don’t want to “mess with the momma” when she is in protection mode.

Supporting Information:
The U.S. Army started this social engineering path in the late 70’s under then POTUS Jimmy Carter when it dissolved the WACs and forced integration of females into male units. Immediate issues arose when soldiers were constantly told that women were equal to men in the US Army but could not (99.999% of the time) meet the same physical/emotional requirements of male units. The women were given different PT requirements but, when put in active units with males, unit cohesion was negatively affected. The male soldiers were told to ignore it and got a real world example of Orwellian logic that some were “more equal than others”. At that time, there was enough common sense left in the US Army to resist having women placed in combat roles.

In the early 1990’s, under another low life POTUS named Bill Clinton, the bar was dropped again to allow women to serve in close support and “clean combat” roles as well as allow homosexuals to serve as long as no one asked or told (whatever that meant). More blurriness. More dysfunction.

Now (since Jan. 2013), under another sterling POTUS, we are allowing women in combat roles and homosexuals can tell all they want. Yeah, this is really going to increase combat effectiveness. NOT!

There are extremely few women who can meet the physical requirements of sustained combat - much less the type that the Rangers, SF, SEALS, et al participate in. To open up the role to women is just another step in the "progressive" process of decay. Standards WILL be lowered to meet political and ideological goals. Combat effectiveness and Esprit de Corps will decline.

However, the masses will continue to be indoctrinated that this is “equality” and that the king is indeed wearing beautiful clothes. The role of men will be lowered and lampooned while the role of women is cheapened. These roles, BTW, are God designed and ordained. Is there something wrong with messing with or changing them? Yes, complete and total madness.

I realize that there are many who are so warped by the poison of this world that they think my opinion borders on misogyny. To those people I say, “Check your taste buds, it is quite possible that you’ve been eating from Satan’s table and have come to think that his fare is gourmet”.

 
Top