Women Invited To Apply To U.S. Army's Elite, All-Male Ranger School

[Recovering IFB]

and by the way..... don;t forget jael.... she not only picked up weapons.. (or implements) ...pertaining to a man but she also nailed an enemy generals head to the floor with them......... was she wrong for doing that?....... the army she came to the aid of at the time didn;t seem to think so..........

Exactly... thank you... I don't know why she didn't come to mind.

Killing a man while he sleep isn't the same thing as standing face to face and toe to toe with someone in hand to hand combat.

I'd give a rifle to any women that was a good shot.... but don't pretend they can "fill in" equally in every combat role.

nobody said all women were more physically capable than most men..... just that a few of them are.... and those few should be allowed to pursue careers that would use their abilities accordingly........  don;t pretend that you...just because you are a man ... could stand face to face...and toe to toe in hand to hand combat with females that posses that kind of ability.....

Boom there it is....doubt he can shot a bow like you!  Set the qualifications...if they are met then gender doesn't matter, except by those who fear that a "girl" might show them up!

Do you believe that a gay man that meets the qualifications should be allowed????

Same thing "buddy". You don't want a gay man introducing conflict but you have no problem with women doing the same. Don't be hypocritcal with your belief system.

My belief system is intact...but thanks for your concern.  I personally have never asked another soldier about their sexual preference.  I don't even want to know...what I want to know if they are qualified to do their job.  Seems a little curious that the two groups that seem overly concerned about people's sexuality in the real world are the extreme fundamentalist and the extreme homosexuals.  I don't ask...nor do I want to know when it comes to combat.  If anyone wants to deal with the theological issue of homosexuality I will be glad to give them my stance.

Don't ask, don't tell. I can remember when most people hated the idea. I imagine they now wished it would have stayed the overall policy. Its certianly better than what we have now.

I do want to know. Military personnel lives are an open book. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know if Tom is thinking about getting his last kiss from Harry while bullets are flying all around. Intense situation tend to bring out the worst in people.

What if Tom is thinking about his wife and kids?

 

[Recovering IFB]

Mustering 10,000 men... impaling the enemy's commander with a peg... fulfilling God's promise that a woman would end the war by killing the commander Jdg 4.9.

Deborah didn't muster 10,000 men, Barak did:

Judges 4:10  And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.

Jael lured Sisera into her tent and assassinated him while he slept:

Judges 4:18-22  And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle.
And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him.
Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No.
Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.

The facts are the facts. These two ladies were not in combat by any reputable definition of the term. They did not fight with direct or indirect weapons against the enemy as a member of an organized fighting unit or group. One was a spiritual leader and the other killed an unarmed man in his sleep after luring him into her tent.

Webster says, "Combat - A fight or contest between individuals or groups".

It is not difficult to understand. Perhaps you are holding on to a preconceived notion that you can't admit is wrong because of pride? Is that possible? I have certainly been guilty of that before. In fact, on this very topic.

It takes quite a bit of jostling to avoid these facts. Even the prima donna of the complementarian viewpoint says they were "IN COMBAT."

Again, how about reading the scripture and taking what is said at face value instead of what some group says? Whose jostling what "facts"?

I have NEVER read a commentary or paper that disavows the idea that they were not.

Maybe expanding your reading into the Christian military culture would offer some insight but that is secondary. What about the Bible?

Seriously. Show me from scripture were I am wrong. I have shown you from scripture why I believe the way I do and all you have offered is "so and so says this" and "such and such never says that".

What does the Bible say?

What is the "Christian military culture"?  Chapter and verse please.

 

[rsc2a]

"Love your enemies and pray for them."

I'll assume you can find it. 

 

[FSSL]

These two ladies were not in combat by any reputable definition of the term. They did not fight with direct or indirect weapons against the enemy as a member of an organized fighting unit or group.

I don't understand your conflict. Your position is at odds with how CBMW presents it.

What does the Bible say?

Jael drove a stake through the commander's head fulfilling the promise that a woman would end the war.

Deborah was "with Barak" mustering 10,000 men. Commentators park on this phrase as a parallel to the ark going into the conflict. Deborah was the commander of this combat. Her presence during the conflict was necessary.

 

[Bruh]

Mustering 10,000 men... impaling the enemy's commander with a peg... fulfilling God's promise that a woman would end the war by killing the commander Jdg 4.9.

Deborah didn't muster 10,000 men, Barak did:

Judges 4:10  And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet: and Deborah went up with him.

Jael lured Sisera into her tent and assassinated him while he slept:

Judges 4:18-22  And Jael went out to meet Sisera, and said unto him, Turn in, my lord, turn in to me; fear not. And when he had turned in unto her into the tent, she covered him with a mantle.
And he said unto her, Give me, I pray thee, a little water to drink; for I am thirsty. And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him.
Again he said unto her, Stand in the door of the tent, and it shall be, when any man doth come and enquire of thee, and say, Is there any man here? that thou shalt say, No.
Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
And, behold, as Barak pursued Sisera, Jael came out to meet him, and said unto him, Come, and I will shew thee the man whom thou seekest. And when he came into her tent, behold, Sisera lay dead, and the nail was in his temples.

The facts are the facts. These two ladies were not in combat by any reputable definition of the term. They did not fight with direct or indirect weapons against the enemy as a member of an organized fighting unit or group. One was a spiritual leader and the other killed an unarmed man in his sleep after luring him into her tent.

Webster says, "Combat - A fight or contest between individuals or groups".

It is not difficult to understand. Perhaps you are holding on to a preconceived notion that you can't admit is wrong because of pride? Is that possible? I have certainly been guilty of that before. In fact, on this very topic.

It takes quite a bit of jostling to avoid these facts. Even the prima donna of the complementarian viewpoint says they were "IN COMBAT."

Again, how about reading the scripture and taking what is said at face value instead of what some group says? Whose jostling what "facts"?

I have NEVER read a commentary or paper that disavows the idea that they were not.

Maybe expanding your reading into the Christian military culture would offer some insight but that is secondary. What about the Bible?

Seriously. Show me from scripture were I am wrong. I have shown you from scripture why I believe the way I do and all you have offered is "so and so says this" and "such and such never says that".

What does the Bible say?

What is the "Christian military culture"?  Chapter and verse please.

Chapter and verse does not matter on the FFF, because all Scripture is not absolute. 

 

[Recovering IFB]

I admit I'm an idiot, I need things explained to me, slooowly!

 

[Bruh]

I admit I'm an idiot, I need things explained to me, slooowly!

Me too, because, all I have is a Public High School Diploma. 

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Intense situation tend to bring out the worst in people.

So do certain topics. Your recent posts have been unsettling.

You're the only one "crying" about it. Maybe you are "unsettled". I don't believe I'm necessarily the cause of your distress.

 

[FSSL]

Who thinks of men getting excited over women menstruating in a fox hole and men making out when they are going to die?

I shouldn't be too surprised! This IS the FFF!

 

[Bruh]

Who thinks of men getting excited over women menstruating in a fox hole and men making out when they are going to die?

I shouldn't be too surprised! This IS the FFF!

Nobody, but one may say, I sure wish I was chosen right about now. 

 

[Green Beret]

I don't understand your conflict. Your position is at odds with how CBMW presents it.

I don't understand your conflict over that I don't care about how CBMW presents it.

Jael drove a stake through the commander's head fulfilling the promise that a woman would end the war.

And, by definition, that was not combat. Anyone who looks at this objectively would concede that.

Deborah was "with Barak" mustering 10,000 men. Commentators park on this phrase as a parallel to the ark going into the conflict. Deborah was the commander of this combat. Her presence during the conflict was necessary.

No. Read it again:

"And Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali to Kedesh; and he went up with ten thousand men at his feet:"

The scripture says Barak (not Barak and Deborah or Deborah and Barak) called Zebulon and Naphtali to Kadesh.

The scripture says "he" (not he and she or she and he) went up with 10,000 men at his feet.

The scripture says AND Deborah went up with him. Therefore, it is logical to assume he did the mustering and she went up to Tabor after the meeting at Kadesh. She told him when it was time to attack. She did not go with him. Yes, she was a spiritual leader telling Barak what he should have been able to discern for himself (i.e. when God tells you to do something - do it!).

In order to see it any other way you must add to scripture what is not there or broaden definitions (like combat) to mean something it doesn't.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Who thinks of men getting excited over women menstruating in a fox hole and men making out when they are going to die?

I shouldn't be too surprised! This IS the FFF!

I never impled the men would get excited. That came from your imagination. Not mine.

I did imply that gay men in a fox hole might be thinking about making out. I happen to believe if you'll go as far as actually chosing to be gay..... there really isn't anything off limits.

 

[Recovering IFB]

Who thinks of men getting excited over women menstruating in a fox hole and men making out when they are going to die?

I shouldn't be too surprised! This IS the FFF!

I never impled the men would get excited. That came from your imagination. Not mine.

I did imply that gay men in a fox hole might be thinking about making out. I happen to believe if you'll go as far as actually chosing to be gay..... there really isn't anything off limits.

I asked; what about Tom thinking about his wife and children?

 

[FSSL]

I don't care about how CBMW presents it.

What more can I say?

And, by definition, that was not combat. Anyone who looks at this objectively would concede that.

Please give me a word that describes one pounding a stake through the commander's head. Perhaps you have a technical term. Everything I read calls it combat.

No. Read it again

English... Hebrew... I think I have read it enough.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Who thinks of men getting excited over women menstruating in a fox hole and men making out when they are going to die?

I shouldn't be too surprised! This IS the FFF!

I never impled the men would get excited. That came from your imagination. Not mine.

I did imply that gay men in a fox hole might be thinking about making out. I happen to believe if you'll go as far as actually chosing to be gay..... there really isn't anything off limits.

I asked; what about Tom thinking about his wife and children?

Didn't see it. Sorry.

Valid question. Thinking about it and actually being able to do what you're thinking about is two different things. Would you want your wife,children or any of the sort with you?

 

[Prin.Ciples]

Please give me a word that describes one pounding a stake through the commander's head. Perhaps you have a technical term. Everything I read calls it combat.

You make is sound like she would have gotten the "Medal of Honor" for killing someone in their sleep?

I would call it a "convenent killing". I don't think it falls in the same catagory as "military combat".

What you think of the prophesy given by Deborah from God?

Jdg 4:9  And she said, I will surely go with thee: notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the LORD shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman.

Don't you believe this was meant to be a degrading action? That a General of the Army of King Jabin was killed by a women?

The way you have it.... It should have been an HONOR.

 

[ddgently]

Don't you believe this was meant to be a degrading action? That a General of the Army of King Jabin was killed by a women?

Of course it would be dishonorable in that culture. Are you suggesting Ancient Near Eastern cultural attitudes recorded in the Bible are normative for today?

 

[FSSL]

The way you have it.... It should have been an HONOR.

It was an honor for Jael.

 

[T-Bone]

and by the way..... don;t forget jael.... she not only picked up weapons.. (or implements) ...pertaining to a man but she also nailed an enemy generals head to the floor with them......... was she wrong for doing that?....... the army she came to the aid of at the time didn;t seem to think so..........

Exactly... thank you... I don't know why she didn't come to mind.

Killing a man while he sleep isn't the same thing as standing face to face and toe to toe with someone in hand to hand combat.

I'd give a rifle to any women that was a good shot.... but don't pretend they can "fill in" equally in every combat role.

nobody said all women were more physically capable than most men..... just that a few of them are.... and those few should be allowed to pursue careers that would use their abilities accordingly........  don;t pretend that you...just because you are a man ... could stand face to face...and toe to toe in hand to hand combat with females that posses that kind of ability.....

Boom there it is....doubt he can shot a bow like you!  Set the qualifications...if they are met then gender doesn't matter, except by those who fear that a "girl" might show them up!

Do you believe that a gay man that meets the qualifications should be allowed????

Same thing "buddy". You don't want a gay man introducing conflict but you have no problem with women doing the same. Don't be hypocritcal with your belief system.

My belief system is intact...but thanks for your concern.  I personally have never asked another soldier about their sexual preference.  I don't even want to know...what I want to know if they are qualified to do their job.  Seems a little curious that the two groups that seem overly concerned about people's sexuality in the real world are the extreme fundamentalist and the extreme homosexuals.  I don't ask...nor do I want to know when it comes to combat.  If anyone wants to deal with the theological issue of homosexuality I will be glad to give them my stance.

Don't ask, don't tell. I can remember when most people hated the idea. I imagine they now wished it would have stayed the overall policy. Its certianly better than what we have now.

I do want to know. Military personnel lives are an open book. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know if Tom is thinking about getting his last kiss from Harry while bullets are flying all around. Intense situation tend to bring out the worst in people.

Actually Military personnel lives are not an open book.  We who served are no different than those who did not serve in that respect.  I don't walk down the road of my community and ask people their sexual preference...my mind simply does not go there.  While serving in the military, my mind did not go there either.  Once again if someone shoves it in my face, and makes a big deal about their sexual preference and demands me to condone and celebrate it, that's another thing.  But when I was serving my primary concern with the person on a call with me or in the MP sedan with me was their qualification to be there.  I rode with some, both male and female, that were clearly unqualified...and they were dangerous.  I also rode with some, both male and female, that were completely qualified...and they were a joy to work with and I knew they had my back.  Don't know if I ever rode with a homosexual...nor did it ever cross my mind to ask.

 

[Prin.Ciples]

The way you have it.... It should have been an HONOR.

It was an honor for Jael.

Now I get to laugh....