Would you pastors object to being called "brother" instead?

[praise_yeshua]

Brother Mater has his mind made up.
my good buddy never wrong py has his mind made up.
They are right, facts and Bible evidence aside.
Please do not try to engage them in factual, reasonable or biblical evidence to the contrary.

Oh, and by the way, we pastors are the one's filled with pride.
Rich, ain't it?

I haven't seen much evidence have you brother Mater?

I think Pastor TB is being a little condescending.....

Use poor lowly people just don't understand it like he does...

Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

TB is almost as consumed by pride as ALAYMAN, though they top one another occasionally.  Maybe it's a competition they've got going.

I like them both. Have from the beginning. I argue with them but they're  much like I once was....

I vote for aleshanee for forum pastor!!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Brother Mater has his mind made up.
my good buddy never wrong py has his mind made up.
They are right, facts and Bible evidence aside.
Please do not try to engage them in factual, reasonable or biblical evidence to the contrary.

Oh, and by the way, we pastors are the one's filled with pride.
Rich, ain't it?

I haven't seen much evidence have you brother Mater?

I think Pastor TB is being a little condescending.....

Us poor lowly people just don't understand it like he does...

Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Just a thought, but the man who was speaking personally to Timothy (a minister in training) was a well-educated teacher of the law, incredibly well-acquainted with the Old Testament imagery that is conveyed by the oft-used of the term "man of God".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Brother Mater has his mind made up.
my good buddy never wrong py has his mind made up.
They are right, facts and Bible evidence aside.
Please do not try to engage them in factual, reasonable or biblical evidence to the contrary.

Oh, and by the way, we pastors are the one's filled with pride.
Rich, ain't it?

I haven't seen much evidence have you brother Mater?

I think Pastor TB is being a little condescending.....

Us poor lowly people just don't understand it like he does...

Rom 12:16  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

Just a thought, but the man who was speaking personally to Timothy (a minister in training) was a well-educated teacher of the law, incredibly well-acquainted with the Old Testament imagery that is conveyed by the oft-used of the term "man of God".

Paul had plenty of opportunity to use the term in such a manner, as you describe,  for others and he didn't. The reference CAN be seen as being personal affection toward Timothy and the gift he had nurtured in him.

I don't see how the phrase can tie back to the concept of a prophet/man of God from the OT. There were plenty of opportunities to see this throughout the NT and it doesn't happen.

 

[FSSL]

TB is. T-Bone is. FSSL is an assistant of some sort... which means he qualifies as a "brother" and don't know it.... LOL

My current title is "Producer." [fff goes ballistic]

 

[Mathew Ward]

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Why do we call anyone pastor, especially since the title has become synonymous with rabbi + teacher/instructor? 

Instead of "Pastor Bob", shouldn't we be referring to him as "Brother Bob"?  That's actually how the assembly I attend works.  Everyone is "brother" or "sister" regardless of their roles.

I prefer just to be called Mathew.

There are folks who prefer to say Pastor Ward or Pastor Mathew. If that is what they like I don't make an issue of it.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Waiting to see a church sign like this... then I'll believe the pastor isn't exalting himself.

 

[ALAYMAN]

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Why do we call anyone pastor, especially since the title has become synonymous with rabbi + teacher/instructor? 

Instead of "Pastor Bob", shouldn't we be referring to him as "Brother Bob"?  That's actually how the assembly I attend works.  Everyone is "brother" or "sister" regardless of their roles.

I prefer just to be called Mathew.

There are folks who prefer to say Pastor Ward or Pastor Mathew. If that is what they like I don't make an issue of it.

You're at least the third minister that has answered his question in a way that disproves his thesis, but he keeps throwing out data points, and will do so until he gets the answer he wants.

 

[subllibrm]

Its is a Biblical thing. Do you really need to list the verses?

So, it really is not just a matter of "acceptance"? You want to force this by saying the Bible has verses that we should call our pastors "brother?"

I am going to call him "Elder." I don't want to call him "brother."

For this reason I was against the elder-system. I never wanted to be called Elder Barry.

Okay, that made me laugh!

 

[Mathew Ward]

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Why do we call anyone pastor, especially since the title has become synonymous with rabbi + teacher/instructor? 

Instead of "Pastor Bob", shouldn't we be referring to him as "Brother Bob"?  That's actually how the assembly I attend works.  Everyone is "brother" or "sister" regardless of their roles.

I prefer just to be called Mathew.

There are folks who prefer to say Pastor Ward or Pastor Mathew. If that is what they like I don't make an issue of it.

You're at least the third minister that has answered his question in a way that disproves his thesis, but he keeps throwing out data points, and will do so until he gets the answer he wants.

As a matter of fact if you call my cell phone I answer it saying...Mathew...

Occasionally I say...Hey man...but usually...Mathew

 

[FSSL]

Waiting to see a church sign like this... then I'll believe the brother isn't exalting himself.

Fixed it for you. Try to be consistent

 

[praise_yeshua]

But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. The greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Why do we call anyone pastor, especially since the title has become synonymous with rabbi + teacher/instructor? 

Instead of "Pastor Bob", shouldn't we be referring to him as "Brother Bob"?  That's actually how the assembly I attend works.  Everyone is "brother" or "sister" regardless of their roles.

I prefer just to be called Mathew.

There are folks who prefer to say Pastor Ward or Pastor Mathew. If that is what they like I don't make an issue of it.

You're at least the third minister that has answered his question in a way that disproves his thesis, but he keeps throwing out data points, and will do so until he gets the answer he wants.

As a matter of fact if you call my cell phone I answer it saying...Mathew...

Occasionally I say...Hey man...but usually...Mathew

You're a good man Matthew.... You're always reasonable in most everything....

I think you recognize that there are some that don't do this and there are many that enjoy the title "pastor". In many ways, such a title is as precious to those that hold it as the "Doc" title is to some.

Lets just break it down a little....

Paul once said "I magnify my office".... but he went on to talk of how his office was given for edification. Or the "build up" of others. Not himself.

Just how many times have you heard those words from your typical "pastor"?

Since some enjoy the title "pastor" so much. You might want to consider what Jeremiah said via the Holy Spirit to.....

Jer 23:1  Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer 23:2  Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

Some of you reading this are good men. I think you realize your not in the company of an abundance of like minded individuals.

 

[subllibrm]

Anecdotal evidence to prove stereotypes. This is safe ground for those who will not change their mind.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Anecdotal evidence to prove stereotypes. This is safe ground for those who will not change their mind.

Most of the responses were distantly related anecdotal evidence.  "Most of us call our pastor Joe."  "People call me Joe".  "I don't mind if people call me Joe". 

For those pastors who said they wouldn't object, I challenge them to put their money where their mouth is.  Remove their names entirely from the church sign.  List themselves as "brother Joe" in the church bulletin.  Open the floor to people who want to contribute their thoughts during a sermon.  And so on...

In other words, stop being the center and focal point of your church.  You're a brother on equal standing with the rest of the brethren.  Behave that way.  Represent yourself that way. 

 

[FSSL]

Why does one's function as a leader of a flock, who has a lecture style of teaching, be considered unequal?

When Paul says that those elders who teach well are worthy of double honor, do you interpret that as an elder being unequal from the hearers?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Why does one's function as a leader of a flock, who has a lecture style of teaching, be considered unequal?

Exactly.  It shouldn't be considered unequal.  So take the pastor's name off the sign. 

When Paul says that those elders who teach well are worthy of double honor, do you interpret that as an elder being unequal from the hearers?

I'm talking about equal standing, not honor.  Jesus makes that clear here:

8 ?But you are not to be called ?Rabbi,? for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ?father,? for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

We are not to give anyone the standing or title that belongs only to Jesus. 

By the way, Paul also says, regarding honor...

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, ?I don?t need you!? And the head cannot say to the feet, ?I don?t need you!? 22 On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it [honor], 25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

In other words, if a part has less honor, give it more honor to elevate it to the same level as the others. 

 

[FSSL]

In the context of elders and leadership in a church, Paul says, "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching." 1 Timothy 5:17

So, if the leader speaks for 12 minutes and someone else speaks for 11 minutes, is that leader still unequal?

See where your logic rests? It rests on the secular PC notion that a leader is, by definition, unequal. We are all equal, because of nature. Function, and honor heaped on someone who has that function, has nothing to do with equality.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

In the context of elders and leadership in a church, Paul says, "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching." 1 Timothy 5:17

So, if the leader speaks for 12 minutes and someone else speaks for 11 minutes, is that leader still unequal?

See where your logic rests? It rests on the secular PC notion that a leader is, by definition, unequal. We are all equal, because of nature. Function, and honor heaped on someone who has that function, has nothing to do with equality.

You're justifying violating what Jesus said because they're worthy of double honor.  "Yeah, Jesus said not to call anyone rabbi/teacher/instructor (pastor), but we're going to put "Pastor Joe" on our sign anyway because he's worthy of double honor."

Equality is about us being all brothers. 

 

[FSSL]

You're justifying violating what Jesus said because they're worthy of double honor.  "Yeah, Jesus said not to call anyone rabbi/teacher/instructor (pastor), but we're going to put "Pastor Joe" on our sign anyway because he's worthy of double honor."

Jesus is not at odds with Paul. The problem is your view of "equality." Put the title, "Brother Joe" on the sign (as some do in the deep South) and there is zero difference. There are "Brother Joes" who view themselves as more than equal. You want the label to change and think that function is a statement of equality. It is not. It is only viewed that way by secular PC.

Equality is about us being all brothers.

Equality is not about us being brothers. It is about us being human. Honor has nothing to do with equality. It respects a person's function, not his humanity.

So, whatever you want to call the leader of your assembly or small group, those who do well are worthy of double honor.

 

[subllibrm]

Our sign only has service times.  8)

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

You're justifying violating what Jesus said because they're worthy of double honor.  "Yeah, Jesus said not to call anyone rabbi/teacher/instructor (pastor), but we're going to put "Pastor Joe" on our sign anyway because he's worthy of double honor."

Jesus is not at odds with Paul. The problem is your view of "equality." Put the title, "Brother Joe" on the sign (as some do in the deep South) and there is zero difference. There are "Brother Joes" who view themselves as more than equal. You want the label to change and think that function is a statement of equality. It is not. It is only viewed that way by secular PC.

My suggestion was to take the name off the sign.

And no, Jesus is not at odds with Paul.  You are at odds with Jesus because you think "double honor" justifies disobeying what Jesus said.