Whosoever in John 3:16.

Tarheel Baptist

Tarheel Baptist

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This is a quote from a post in a FB Pastors group. What do the theologians on the FFF think about his translation?

“Whosoever” is a KJV mistranslation of the Greek “pas ho pisteuon,” which is literally, “every one believing.” John 3:16 is an affirmation, not an invitation. All those believing are the elect.”
 
Sounds quite right. "Whoever" means "those who," so "whosoever believeth" is "those who beilieve," i.e. the believing ones.

John 3:16 says there are those who believe and who receive eternal life. It's not a statement about how they got there (e.g. by exercising their free will to believe).
 
Ransom said:
Sounds quite right. "Whoever" means "those who," so "whosoever believeth" is "those who beilieve," i.e. the believing ones.

John 3:16 says there are those who believe and who receive eternal life. It's not a statement about how they got there (e.g. by exercising their free will to believe).
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To be honest, nor is it a statement against free will.
 
Ransom said:
Yes, exactly. It doesn't prove the point one way or the other.
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True. The context of the post was in response to the argument that ‘whosoever will’ was an argument proving or at least a strong argument for free will.
 
Bob Jones V said:
Au Contrair my friend. Read Jonathan Edwards "On the Freedom of the Will." A life changing Philosophical and Theological treatise on Free will and determinism. I know that is a trite answer to tell someone to read a book to answer a question like this. In my opinion, it is the central question of many many Christian debates. But I started reading it 2 or 3 times in my life, and then in 2009 I finally read it and was convinced.
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I've read it, and I've read about Calvinism. Neither are totally correct. Neither are totally incorrect I don't rely on other books..but rather on the Bible itself.
 
Bob Jones V said:
That is the answer of the Biblicist, and I reject it. You read more than the Bible, and you use more than the Bible to understand and interpret it. You just contradcited your own supposed system, or position, or theological framework. It is absolutely impossible to read only the Bible and understand it. It's pretty similar to what C.S. Lewis called Chronological Snobbery.
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You have no idea what I read and don't read. Keep your suppositions to yourself until you know what you're talking about, or back them up. The only "snob" here is you!
 
The basic issue is how you define free as relating to the will. What does it mean to be dead in trespass and sin. Is salvation from God or does man begin the process by his/her choosing’.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
The basic issue is how you define free as relating to the will. What does it mean to be dead in trespass and sin. Is salvation from God or does man begin the process by his/her choosing’.
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To answer your question, I don’t believe it’s an and/or answer, but both. Salvation is from God, but the human element is present with “choosing,” except in the circumstance of those not mentally capable of choosing (due to special challenges or age). I don’t believe a young child or a special needs person go to hell by dint of not being capable of free will, though I suppose I have no Scripture to back me up!
 
Huk said:
To answer your question, I don’t believe it’s an and/or answer, but both. Salvation is from God, but the human element is present with “choosing,” except in the circumstance of those not mentally capable of choosing (due to special challenges or age). I don’t believe a young child or a special needs person go to hell by dint of not being capable of free will, though I suppose I have no Scripture to back me up!
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Your statement about special needs or young children supposes a ‘free will‘ being interfered with by age or health. The issue is who’s will ‘chooses to choose salvation‘…God’s or the sinner’s?
Anyone here read Luther’s Bondage of the Will (De Servo Arbitrio)?
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
This is a quote from a post in a FB Pastors group. What do the theologians on the FFF think about his translation?

“Whosoever” is a KJV mistranslation of the Greek “pas ho pisteuon,” which is literally, “every one believing.” John 3:16 is an affirmation, not an invitation. All those believing are the elect.”
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In Acts 16:31 the jailer asked Paul what must I do to be saved to which Paul replied , “ you must believe on the Lord Jesus to be saved”. Election is in scripture but so is an individuals responsibility to believe and repent as God commanded. I understand that no man comes to the Son unless he is drawn by the Father, and some believe and sadly many reject the truth. Revelation 22:17 is an invitation to take the water of life freely and there it says whosoever will. Looking at scriptures that support a belief or dogma and not honestly looking at all of scripture does a tremendous harm to the truth of God’s word to whoever approaches scripture with blinders on on either side of the debate.
 
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Bob Jones V said:
I figured. You're a keyboard warrior. And of coure you're against Calvinism. It's soooooo opposed to Evangelism. It's all a man made system. But of course your position is totally biblical. LOLOLOL
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You have no idea where I stand, and your evaluation of me means very little to me. Go fly a kite, crybaby! You're the same whiney you were years ago. Go figure, loser.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
This is a quote from a post in a FB Pastors group. What do the theologians on the FFF think about his translation?

“Whosoever” is a KJV mistranslation of the Greek “pas ho pisteuon,” which is literally, “every one believing.” John 3:16 is an affirmation, not an invitation. All those believing are the elect.”
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Whosoever is in the Greek manuscript. If it doesn’t fit their dogma Calvinist just change it.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Your statement about special needs or young children supposes a ‘free will‘ being interfered with by age or health. The issue is who’s will ‘chooses to choose salvation‘…God’s or the sinner’s?
Anyone here read Luther’s Bondage of the Will (De Servo Arbitrio)?
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No, I haven’t read Luther’s book, but that seems like you’re sidestepping the issue. Do you believe a toddler or an adult with special needs (mental) is incapable of going to heaven because of their lack of ability to freely choose the plan of salvation?
 
Bob Jones V said:
Those who have nothing to say resort to Ad Hominem.
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I have had things "to say" to you in the "abortion" thread regarding your significant theological abuse of I Cor 3:3 and yet you continue to dodge any significant discourse regarding your own errant interpretive scheme. Seems you'd rather talk about "condescension" and "ad hominem" more than theological substance.
 
ALAYMAN said:
I have had things "to say" to you in the "abortion" thread regarding your significant theological abuse of I Cor 3:3 and yet you continue to dodge any significant discourse regarding your own errant interpretive scheme. Seems you'd rather talk about "condescension" and "ad hominem" more than theological substance.
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This has been my experience with him as well, not just here, but if I recall correctly, elsewhere as well. Thus, the use of the word, "typical" towards him.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Whosoever is in the Greek manuscript. If it doesn’t fit their dogma Calvinist just change it.
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Already covered. "Whosoever" (or its Greek equivalent) doesn't say anything about the autonomy of the will.
 
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