1 John 1:8-10: Can you confess your sins, once-and-for-all?

[FSSL]

I have a good friend. He is very intelligent and went farther than I did in his education (Th.M.).

Yet, he has a peculiar take on 1 John 1:8-10. He believes (or used to) that this passage teaches that when you confess your sin, you never have to confess it again.

Here is the passage:
If we claim to be without sin,q we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.t 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Your thoughts, first.

 

[Bob H]

If he believes in christian perfectionism I could see his claim. I John 2:1 sorta disproves it.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

I have a good friend. He is very intelligent and went farther than I did in his education (Th.M.).

Yet, he has a peculiar take on 1 John 1:8-10. He believes (or used to) that this passage teaches that when you confess your sin, you never have to confess it again.

Here is the passage:
If we claim to be without sin,q we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.t 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Your thoughts, first.

I don't know Greek but I have read where 'confess' is in the perpetual sense, that if we continue to confess our sins, God will continue to forgive and purify.

 

[FSSL]

If he believes in christian perfectionism I could see his claim. I John 2:1 sorta disproves it.

That is the strange thing about it... He rejects that, Arminian theology, Keswick and Hodges Grace movement.

He s a 5 point Calvinist and yet this verse hangs him up.


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[FSSL]

I don't know Greek but I have read where 'confess' is in the perpetual sense, that if we continue to confess our sins, God will continue to forgive and purify.

Right. This is a Present Active verb. It isn't specific enough to suggest a perpetual sense.


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[Bob H]

If he believes in christian perfectionism I could see his claim. I John 2:1 sorta disproves it.

That is the strange thing about it... He rejects that, Arminian theology, Keswick and Hodges Grace movement.

He s a 5 point Calvinist and yet this verse hangs him up.


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I RESENT the fact you put the arminian & Keswick groups with the Hodges group. Their antinominianisn is closer to you guys.

 

[FSSL]

Lol!!! I cannot deny the Calvinism that Hodges proclaims. I see it as inconsistent.

 

[RAIDER]

I was once teaching on 1 Jn 1:9 in an adult SS class.  I was approaching it from the daily cleansing angle.  After class a lady approached me and informed me that when we are born again, God forgives all our sins - past, present, and future.  Because of this we do not need daily cleansing.  It was the first time I had heard that thought pattern.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I was once teaching on 1 Jn 1:9 in an adult SS class.  I was approaching it from the daily cleansing angle.  After class a lady approached me and informed me that when we are born again, God forgives all our sins - past, present, and future.  Because of this we do not need daily cleansing.  It was the first time I had heard that thought pattern.

1 John 1:9 doesn't sound like it's addressed to believers.  It reads (at least to me) like it's just part of John's opening witness to the truth:

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched?this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. (...)

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1 sounds like it's meant for believers.

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father?Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Then he says why he's able to be an advocate for the Father.

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

This is not to say we shouldn't confess (admit) our sins to God or to our supposed brothers and sisters when we sin against them.  But I don't think 1 John 1 is talking about repeatedly having to confess to repeatedly get forgiven. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

Where there is sin.... there is condemnation. You can not separate the two.

A confession of sin is confessing that you are a sinner in need of Grace. Confessing to being a sinner is to deal with your sin, once and for all.

As to fellowship in God's Son.....There is constant purging that takes place within ourselves of the flesh and everything related to it. This will always exist in a incomplete vessel of Grace. Being complete in Him.....is an undeniable promise. A promise, true and steadfast. Yet, its not completely a realty at this present moment.

I've dealt with "The Sin" question, yet there is nothing good in this flesh. Nothing beyond reproach. The old man is reckoned dead by God Himself, but I'm still struggling with it.

Both are true. Its not a "either or" answer or question.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

1 John 1:9 doesn't sound like it's addressed to believers.  It reads (at least to me) like it's just part of John's opening witness to the truth:

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched?this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. (...)

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:1 sounds like it's meant for believers.

Except for 2 things:

1. He gave a list in chapter 2 of groups to whom he was writing (children, fathers, young men) and none sound like non-believers.

2. The constant inclusion of himself as a recipient of that admonition. Such is exemplified in the next verse you posted:

1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father?Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 

Again, he includes himself.

Then he says why he's able to be an advocate for the Father.

2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

NIV spin. The word is propitiation or satisfaction.

This is not to say we shouldn't confess (admit) our sins to God or to our supposed brothers and sisters when we sin against them.  But I don't think 1 John 1 is talking about repeatedly having to confess to repeatedly get forgiven.

The idea the verb tense is active demonstrates a bit of continual behavior. And in turn, God forgives and cleanses as we repent. What happens if we don't repent? Will God not forgive nor cleanse? John doesn't tell us here, only that God's actions are somehow correlated with our repentance.

 

[prophet]

As usual, the context has been snipped.

1Jo 1:5 ? 1Jo 2:1
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
2?:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:


This is a comparative self-test.

6 vs 7
8 vs 9 vs 10.

If you are in Christ, ....
If you are not,.....

So yes, absolutely, this is teaching that: once in your life, you confess to God to be a sinner, and are permanently cleansed 4 life.

Frankly, I have no idea how someone who believes in Eternal Security can possibly rectify their mishandling of this passage to their correct interpretation of passages about our sin being gone forever.

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[prophet]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

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[prophet]

I heard a sermon once, that claimed verse 6-8 to be positional .
It claimed that verse 9 was relational.
And then I guess we're right back to positional.

Anyway, that was at least an attempt, howbeit highly irrational, of acknowledging the positional aspect of the passage.

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[Smellin Coffee]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

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"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

 

[prophet]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

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"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

Or, He was talking to a Nation, that He had made His daughter, reiterating the Law over which they stumbled, because He foreknew that that generation would be cursed along with their offspring?



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[praise_yeshua]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

Or, He was talking to a Nation, that He had made His daughter, reiterating the Law over which they stumbled, because He foreknew that that generation would be cursed along with their offspring?



Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

Don't look...... but he thinks he'll truly merit the Grace of God one day... Just not today.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

Or, He was talking to a Nation, that He had made His daughter, reiterating the Law over which they stumbled, because He foreknew that that generation would be cursed along with their offspring?



Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

I guess The Lord's Prayer was meant in the national context also...

 

[Smellin Coffee]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

Or, He was talking to a Nation, that He had made His daughter, reiterating the Law over which they stumbled, because He foreknew that that generation would be cursed along with their offspring?



Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

Don't look...... but he thinks he'll truly merit the Grace of God one day... Just not today.

Yet grace cannot be merited. ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

To look at this from another angle:

Can a born again child of God have unforgiven sin?

If God will not impute Sin to the account of a saved man, then, can he have unforgiven sin?

If the answer is "no", then v 9 can only be speaking of our Salvation.

Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

"But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

This is talking TO God's children. So yes, a child of God can have unforgiven sin.

Or, He was talking to a Nation, that He had made His daughter, reiterating the Law over which they stumbled, because He foreknew that that generation would be cursed along with their offspring?



Sent from my C6730 using Tapatalk

I guess The Lord's Prayer was meant in the national context also...

National condemnation. That doesn't mean you can't get something from it.