Abortion, We Are Against It

FSSL said:
... and can obedient Christians have differing opinions on this?
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I am against abortion for reasons outside of a threat to the mother's life. And yes, there is room for disagreement. At some level I can even put it under Romans 14 and disputable things.

We got four more years of Ms. Witmer because Mr. Trump hand picked Tudor Dixon and her zero exceptions stand. That led to record breaking voter turnout in an off year election and the passage of Proposal 3 taking away all restrictions on abortion (text provided elsewhere). So from a political standpoint I understand his change of heart. What I don't see is that he is motivated to minimize the damage to abortion limits. I don't believe that he ever was motivated by any prolife conviction. It was an easy trade with the religious right for their votes, art of the deal and all that. Now the cost ids too high so he will back out of the deal like he always does when it no longer suits him.

There I one point where I do agree with him, the Arizona ruling will be overturned. By the state legislature and/or the voters. I can only hope that they don't drive off the cliff like Michigan did.
 
biscuit1953 said:
Give other Christians the liberty to be involved in government or not. You are a fatalist no matter what you say. Name one person who meets your standard of righteousness. Quit denigrating Christians who don't follow your beliefs.
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Where have I denied you any liberty?
 
subllibrm said:
I am curious about how the message of redemption is understood when mixed in with political talking points. Or more importantly if it is heard at all. We are supposed to be reaching the lost for Christ. Sadly, our message is leavened with a message that is not concerned with the redemption of sinners. Remember, a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

As to "them" when we look out and can see them as nothing but degenerates, it blinds us to the fact that they are the fields in need of harvest. Every one of them is an image bearer of God, made in His likeness and is lost and going to hell. It seems that we would rather harness the power of government to mow down those fields rather than wade into their world to share Jesus. So I have been waiting for someone to explain how the political process is going to bring in the sheaves. God has told us how to do it but that isn't pragmatic or realistic so we decided to do it a different way. As Dr. Phil would say, how's that working for you?
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who said anything about the political process bringing in the sheaves?.....or of allowing our support for a president we believe will be better for the country to take the place of going out into the highways and hedges and witnessing Christ to the lost?.... ..are you so black and white in your thinking that you believe christians are not capable of doing both?..... ...i believe that in a country where God gave us the right to choose our leaders He would have us to do both... ..and not to do one but leave the other undone......

.... ...witnessing to the lost - ministering to the homeless.... working to get abused and trafficked teenagers off the street takes a great deal of time and a personal committment on a daily to weekly basis.... i have written about those things and why they are important many times on this forum over the years......

.. .... voting for a president takes only a few minutes once every 4 years.... vocalizing our support for a president only takes just a little longer than that and is generally done only when someone else brings the issue up..... and that someone is usually someone like you - whose only purpose i can see is to berate - ridicule and make false accusations against those of us who take that small bit of patriotic duty seriously.......

by the way.... what makes you believe i would neglect doing any of the work i do in various ministries for the sake of politics?... or that since i believe in doing both that i would blend the two or inject any political message into what i say when witnessing to the lost?...what makes you think anybody here would?....
 
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subllibrm said:
I will stick with the instructions from God and let Him worry about the success or failure. Jericho made no sense but Joshua followed the Lord's instructions. Achan thought that God wouldn't mind a little looting and it cost him his life along with many others. And that peace treaty Joshua signed, that worked out well for Israel.
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now you are taking scriptures completely out of context and twisting the meanings and applications of them to suit your own purposes........ .....where does God instruct us to take no part in choosing a president or to make no effort to try and improve the condition of the country we live in?..... the people of the old testament you keep referencing did not have the freedoms or the God given rights and priviledges we do..... . and if we neglect those rights and privildges God might very well see to it that we don;t have them anymore either.... .. the really troubling thing for some of us is that you talk as if that would suit you just fine...
 
subllibrm said:
Moloch doesn't care why we sacrifice the babies as long as we spill the blood for him. I guess the question back to you is how many babies are an acceptable sacrifice? Zero as in Arizona (for a short time) or unlimited as it is now in Michigan? Not to worry though, the pragmatic will stand by while Arizona plays catch up.
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no amount of babies murdered is acceptable.....:mad: .... our focus is on saving as many lives as possible... (realistically possible)..... so why do you believe taking an action that will lead to a democrat adminstration taking power and causing the greatest number of babies to be murdered is acceptable?...... because it serves your pride and twisted principles?.... gives you a warm but false fuzzy feeling like you did the right thing?...

but whether you like it or not - or whether you will admit it or not - (and i have told you this before).... your stance and constant sermonizing on this issue only serves to enable government administrations that advocate abortion all the way to full term and beyond... and gives them greater power..... and there is no way that can be called doing the right thing... ....

all the rest of us here have done is advocate voting for the best viable candidate for president that will be able to prevent the murder of as many babies as possible.... do you understand that word viable?..... it means capable of life..... or in this instance a presidential candidate who actually has a chance of being elected... . .. when you vote for a candidate that has no chance of winning you might as well be selecting a name at random from the obituaries and writing them in on your ballot.... ..either one would be just as viable as the other... and just as effective too....
 
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Tarheel Baptist said:
Please give us your morally superior candidate so we can all get behind him or her. Sometimes I think Snellin is your sock. 😇
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Is Franklin Graham Right?

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/franklin-graham-resigns-the/2015/12/22/id/706826/?dicbo=v2-VqzFpPm Franklin Graham has been outspoken on many social and moral issues in America which many believe is nothing but "politics." How is what Franklin Graham and other Christian leaders speaking out...
www.fundamentalforums.org
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Please give us your morally superior candidate so we can all get behind him or her. Sometimes I think Snellin is your sock. 😇
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It wasn’t that long ago (a few weeks) that the overturning of Roe was proof that Mr Trump was good for the country. Now he is actively complaining about the results of his greatest accomplishment.

I’m curious what all y’all thought overturning Roe was going to accomplish. Return it to the states? Yup. It did just that and now pro life folks are upset that the sovereign state of Arizona has done what we have said we wanted for over fifty years.
 
subllibrm said:
It wasn’t that long ago (a few weeks) that the overturning of Roe was proof that Mr Trump was good for the country. Now he is actively complaining about the results of his greatest accomplishment.
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So, Trump can't express an opinion on a state's initial judgement? That hardly undermines his greatest accomplishment.
 
subllibrm said:
It wasn’t that long ago (a few weeks) that the overturning of Roe was proof that Mr Trump was good for the country. Now he is actively complaining about the results of his greatest accomplishment.

I’m curious what all y’all thought overturning Roe was going to accomplish. Return it to the states? Yup. It did just that and now pro life folks are upset that the sovereign state of Arizona has done what we have said we wanted for over fifty years.
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You're so full of crap your eyes are changing color! If you believe half of what you're saying it's just more proof that you're a half-wit!
 
FSSL said:
Wrong in allowing for abortion in the matter of rape or incest?
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The rape/incest exceptions are compromises. They're frequently what it takes to achieve any restrictions on abortion at all. They're not desirable exceptions in and of themselves.

The 1864 law currently in effect in Arizona bans abortions without those two exceptions. The only exception it makes is to save the life of the woman giving birth, which virtually no one finds objectionable. It doesn't need the compromise. In fact, today the Arizona House of Representatives defeated a repeal of the current law.

Arizona doesn't need Trump's compromise to outlaw baby murder. By saying Arizona has gone too far with a law already on the books, Trump showed his hand too soon. He wants something more permissive. Which calls his pro-life cred into question. (Though by calling for compromise before it's even needed, he's solidified his Republican credentials.)
 
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I understand the common lib excuses. No doubt that they will find any excuse to use abortion as birth control.

Libs are not happy with just "rape and incest" limitations, either.

Rape and incest often leads to extreme suffering and wounds in the victims. If an abortion is important to the physical healing of a victim, I dont see a moral conflict.

With that said, I don't think every rape/incest victim should abort. I simply think the option should be left legally open.
 
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