Alumni Meeting

[penhobby]

Can I be perfectly transparent and honest?

I so want God to be glorified through all of the JS mess. I also want the institution that hurt so many over the years to just disappear. And I struggle trying to reconcile those two thoughts.  So many of those who hurt us are still there and in charge. Some were given substantial position while JS was...well...you know...And only because they were his best friends. He was placing his people in strategic positions for his own purposes. And they are still in those positions! I wonder sometimes who in their right mind would still send their precious children and students there. I truly believe Pastor Wilkerson is a good man. And I wonder how long it will take for that system to corrupt him. Then I have to confront my own pride and reexamine my own life and remind myself to keep my eyes on Jesus. I'm not there anymore so it's really none of my business. But the hurt we endured there still stings. There is a part of me that cringes when I read the positive remarks of support...but  I know I am wrong for that. I have a love/hate relationship with my alma mater...the place my children were born and reared...the area and place I called home for 30 years...the alma mater of my children...the place we served the Lord...the ministry we gave the best years of our life to.

Those are my brutally honest thoughts.

What you need, what you desire is recognition and understanding from those that harmed you. You will never get that from them. Do you understand? They will never give you that closure, and closure is what you need. Sometimes the most courageous thing you can do in life, is let it all go. I am not talking about forgiveness or forgetting, I am talking about consciously turning your back on those who harmed you and living out-loud in spite of them.  Also, you are neither wrong or right.  You are human, so cut yourself some slack.

 

[BALAAM]

I would even question their new refinancing scheme. What bank lops 1 or 2 million off the balance on a mortgage unless the debtor has threatened to file bankruptcy?

If John Wilkerson wants to show some integrity about finances he needs to bring in a NEW, completely unaffiliated, and reputable CPA to manage all their finances.

SMH

Apparently the originating bank no longer exists and the loan was bought out by a 2nd bank. That bank is looking to divest itself of some large loans, of which FBC's is the largest (still the biggest lol). So another bank is willing to refinance at a loss. If I understood right.

I no longer attend there but I was there on the Sunday night when he announced this. My understanding was that they were looking for a bank to refinance the mortgage and they felt that having a wad of cash would help there position. I may have heard wrong.

Even though I was a member I never did know the final numbers on what the church cost or how much exactly the mortgage was for. I did know that they did not have the mortgage payments originally in the budget and that someone else was making the payments. What did he say? Like $117,000.00 a month? He is probably putting that money in jack's retirement account now.

 

[bruinboy]

Funny stuff. Enrollment of 450 whole kawlage students, having garage sales etc. to raise money, hoping for no accreditation.  Like someone said already, they couldn't be accredited anyway. I doubt even TRACS would consider them a candidate and their certification is akin to a HAC deeeploma in the world of real accreditation. Sounds like they are still playing games with the finances, especially when no one understands what the plan really is. Same people driving the boat and a pastor afraid of rocking the same.
Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Couldn't happen to a better place. Nothing but a historical breeding ground for sexual deviates.
Fight on!!!

 

[bgwilkinson]

Brain is Engaged,...

I was waiting for someone to bring this stuff up.

I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign.

Then the deacon chairman gets up and takes time, on a service that was already full of extras to read a letter. He got choked up,... I thought for sure he and several others would accept their part of what happened and resign. Nope. Just a letter read to say that they support the pastor 100% and this church is about lifting Christ. Two things about that: to me it's the same letter they would have read to Jack Schaap 10 years ago and it rings hollow. 2nd, isn't it understood that the deacons are behind the pastor???

The fund raising idea kind of upset some people. The people on charge of the finances that led to the current circumstances are still in charge. Secondly why not have people give their leased cars back as a way to raise money. People lost their jobs while others kept cars on a lease.

Just some thoughts?

Quote from above:

"The people on charge of the finances that led to the current circumstances are still in charge."

I don't want to seem unkind, but this is just not true. There is a new sheriff and his posse in Hammond.
See below.

"I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign."

It is within the last year that the building payment was placed into the budget at the insistence of the financial committee. This committee was provided in the new Church Constitution to oversee and control the finances of all the FBCH Corporations.

There is now a financial committee made up of deacons that have legitimate degrees from major secular universities who are competent in accounting, not for profit tax matters and finance. In all the years previous there never was anyone who had legitimate training in accounting for not for profit corps. Glen Smith was the last deacon to serve in the area of finances. When he died Bro. Hyles refused to replace him even though it was required in the Church Articles of Incorporation. Sadly, we now know why.

The younger deacons who make up the financial committee are looking to do things as they should have been done since the 70s, not as the were done.

In Bro. Hyles time it was one lady and himself. I'm going to leave it there because it is water under the dam.
But we did learn from it.

With Jack Schaap it was that lady and himself, he kept everything a secret. Eddie claims not to have known.
The deacons were completely in the dark about the finances. In the 90s we had asked to have an audit of all the Church Corporations, at which Bro. Hyles threatened to resign. Was not brought up again.

Until the fall of 2012, the deacons truly did not know anything of substance about the finances of any of the FBCH Corporations.

You might say that the scales are slowly falling from the eyes of the younger deacons, some of the older ones can not come to grips with what has been found out about our last two pastors. They still have their rose colored glasses on and everything is coming up roses for them, alas just wishful thinking.

In years past I could not bear to read this article by Robert Sumner as I was afraid the parts that were so bad were true. I have come to the place where I can now read it, and in so doing I can now fill in the names of the people who are only represented by initials and yes the bad parts are true. This article is must reading if you want to understand what we have gone through at FBCH in the last 50 years. You see much of what we thought and hoped was true was just a lie told to prop up one man's ministry.

If its been a few years since you read this it might make more sense now.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_preface.php

 

[Bravo]

I don't want to seem unkind, but this is just not true. There is a new sheriff and his posse in Hammond.
See below.

"I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign."


There is now a financial committee made up of deacons that have legitimate degrees from major secular universities who are competent in accounting, not for profit tax matters and finance. In all the years previous there never was anyone who had legitimate training in accounting for not for profit corps. Glen Smith was the last deacon to serve in the area of finances. When he died Bro. Hyles refused to replace him even though it was required in the Church Articles of Incorporation. Sadly, we now know why.


Until the fall of 2012, the deacons truly did not know anything of substance about the finances of any of the FBCH Corporations.

You might say that the scales are slowly falling from the eyes of the younger deacons, some of the older ones can not come to grips with what has been found out about our last two pastors. They still have their rose colored glasses on and everything is coming up roses for them, alas just wishful thinking.

I am open to correction on that BG. You seem straightforward but now you are hearing from the pew,...

To us in the pew (not staff, not deacon) Eddie was in charge of finances along with Schaap back in the day. His title had something to do with that didn't it?

In this new finance committee is the head guy still the guy that was convicted of embezzlement from his secular employer? (Again I am open to the right answer if not)

 

[bgwilkinson]

I don't want to seem unkind, but this is just not true. There is a new sheriff and his posse in Hammond.
See below.

"I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked! I almost thought Bro Wilkerson was going to resign."


There is now a financial committee made up of deacons that have legitimate degrees from major secular universities who are competent in accounting, not for profit tax matters and finance. In all the years previous there never was anyone who had legitimate training in accounting for not for profit corps. Glen Smith was the last deacon to serve in the area of finances. When he died Bro. Hyles refused to replace him even though it was required in the Church Articles of Incorporation. Sadly, we now know why.


Until the fall of 2012, the deacons truly did not know anything of substance about the finances of any of the FBCH Corporations.

You might say that the scales are slowly falling from the eyes of the younger deacons, some of the older ones can not come to grips with what has been found out about our last two pastors. They still have their rose colored glasses on and everything is coming up roses for them, alas just wishful thinking.

I am open to correction on that BG. You seem straightforward but now you are hearing from the pew,...

To us in the pew (not staff, not deacon) Eddie was in charge of finances along with Schaap back in the day. His title had something to do with that didn't it?

In this new finance committee is the head guy still the guy that was convicted of embezzlement from his secular employer? (Again I am open to the right answer if not)

Eddie was hired by the deacons to care for the day to day business matters that only Bro. Hyles knew about, and possibly Jack Schaap as Bro. Hyles passed the keys to the kingdom to Jack Schaap on his death bed. I am talking about the secrets only Bro. Hyles knew about, such as where Bro. Hyles kept his assets.

Eddie was more or less a figure head and whipping boy during Schaap's tenure. Schaap would send him out but only Schaap knew what was going on behind closed doors. Much of that is still a mystery and was hidden from the deacons, only Schaap knows.

The finance committee as a committee is made up of about half a dozen deacons and the Pastor. Decisions are made by vote not by decree. I understand there are some very lively discussions that go on. No one person always gets their way.

There is safety in a multitude of councilors. This is a new philosophy at FBCH so different from the Manawgawd type pastor, the do what I say or there's the highway mafia boss type.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

The deacons were completely in the dark about the finances. In the 90s we had asked to have an audit of all the Church Corporations, at which Bro. Hyles threatened to resign. Was not brought up again.

Wow. That sure smells of fraud.
If only the deacons would have kept up their demands.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

In this new finance committee is the head guy still the guy that was convicted of embezzlement from his secular employer? (Again I am open to the right answer if not)

Seems legit.

What could possibly go wrong?

*head desk*

 

[Timotheus]

Eddie was more or less a figure head and whipping boy during Schaap's tenure. Schaap would send him out but only Schaap knew what was going on behind closed doors. Much of that is still a mystery and was hidden from the deacons, only Schaap knows.

BG this is not directed at you.

I am going to call this what it is.

BS! 

Eddie knew what was going on.  It is my opinion that Schaap had something over him to get him to do the dirtiest stuff.

What was with the weirdness of Schaap getting a truck (presented to him by Eddie if I remember right) a year or two before he got caught.

Eddie is playing a good game right now.  He is far from innocent.

I don't know if Pastor Wilkerson has figured it out yet, but he was hired to be a figurehead and cover for Eddie and the like.  He seems like a good man.  I pray that his eyes will be open, and he will act.

 

[bgwilkinson]

The deacons were completely in the dark about the finances. In the 90s we had asked to have an audit of all the Church Corporations, at which Bro. Hyles threatened to resign. Was not brought up again.

Wow. That sure smells of fraud.
If only the deacons would have kept up their demands.

Bro. Hyles always presented himself as speaking directly for God Himself and many of us overtly believed it or at least subconsciously believed it. Nevertheless the result was the same, inaction on our part.

Voyle Glover's listing that is toward the end of Bro. Sumners Saddest Story Ever Told might give some insight into what Bro. Hyles might have been doing. Voyle was a deacon at the time he put that info together and he and Trudy were good friends of me and my wife.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Eddie was more or less a figure head and whipping boy during Schaap's tenure. Schaap would send him out but only Schaap knew what was going on behind closed doors. Much of that is still a mystery and was hidden from the deacons, only Schaap knows.

BG this is not directed at you.

I am going to call this what it is.

BS! 

Eddie knew what was going on.  It is my opinion that Schaap had something over him to get him to do the dirtiest stuff.

What was with the weirdness of Schaap getting a truck (presented to him by Eddie if I remember right) a year or two before he got caught.

Eddie is playing a good game right now.  He is far from innocent.

I don't know if Pastor Wilkerson has figured it out yet, but he was hired to be a figurehead and cover for Eddie and the like.  He seems like a good man.  I pray that his eyes will be open, and he will act.

I can only speak to that which I know. During much of the last few years of Schaap's time at FBCH I was traveling on business, so I was not around as much as in earlier years of his tenure.

I sure can believe Schaap had something on Eddie, but I will not speculate, other than maybe something with Dave when Eddie was a teen.

When a pastor does a lot of counseling he finds out information that can prove useful to get things done when there is no other way. I always told my family members to never, never, never go see the pastor and never revel anything to him that you would not want published in the Hammond Times.

Bro. Hyles had a way of letting secrets obtained in counseling sessions just kind of slip out in a fiery sermon we all knew who that was for sure.

Bro. Hyles always insisted that deacons never talk to employees, I wonder why that might be?

I did not ever know either Eddie or Schaap as an employee might know them, both Schaap and Eddie, have always treated me with utmost respect. If it depended on me to dig up something on Schaap or Eddie, I couldn't as I never heard them or saw them do anything untoward or unseemly, Schaap's preaching is excepted, of course.

 

[Bravo]

I did not ever know either Eddie or Schaap as an employee might know them, both Schaap and Eddie, have always treated me with utmost respect. If it depended on me to dig up something on Schaap or Eddie, I couldn't as I never heard them or saw them do anything untoward or unseemly, Schaap's preaching is excepted, of course.

Eddie--- on the Sunday after the Schaap "incident". Talking about a sabbatical for his health so that we could keep him (Jack Schaap) around longer as our pastor. Men went out to meet with Schaap to talk to him about the pics on his phone prior to Eddie saying all this. It may not get mentioned but I know people and staff alike won't forget that day. Eddie was lying,... And he wasn't doing a good job of it.

 

[Bravo]

In this new finance committee is the head guy still the guy that was convicted of embezzlement from his secular employer? (Again I am open to the right answer if not)

Seems legit.

What could possibly go wrong?

*head desk*

BG you did not address this.

 

[Gonefishin]

Eddie was one of the men that went out to meet with the shaft polisher. He came back after and put a FBC spin on the entire situation. I would not trust that man with my dog. I like my dog too much. Not only is their a convicted felon on the finance committee but a former employee that was fired for propositioning a woman at the church. The more things change the more they stay the same.

I did not ever know either Eddie or Schaap as an employee might know them, both Schaap and Eddie, have always treated me with utmost respect. If it depended on me to dig up something on Schaap or Eddie, I couldn't as I never heard them or saw them do anything untoward or unseemly, Schaap's preaching is excepted, of course.

Eddie--- on the Sunday after the Schaap "incident". Talking about a sabbatical for his health so that we could keep him (Jack Schaap) around longer as our pastor. Men went out to meet with Schaap to talk to him about the pics on his phone prior to Eddie saying all this. It may not get mentioned but I know people and staff alike won't forget that day. Eddie was lying,... And he wasn't doing a good job of it.

 

[Norefund]

It has been a few years since I read this but, everyone might find this a bit interesting:

"One First Baptist staff member, Eddie Lapina – who identified himself to me as the church's Youth Pastor prior to publishing our first article – called (with fellow staff member Chris Stansell bravely listening in; the latter told me later he "said a word or two," but I was not conscious of anyone else speaking), threatening me about what he would do if I printed the article ("I'm going to tell you something, if that article comes out…if I ever cross your path I'm going to deal with you big time," and later he added, "you and I will meet some day, somehow, somewhere"; when I asked what he meant, sarcastically saying he "really frightened me," he said I could take it any way I wanted to). Since I understood him to mean he would physically assault me, I asked his age, and he said 30; I pointed out that I am nearly 67 and he was very brave to threaten to beat up an elderly man. Lapina then backed off and said there were other ways "to fight" than physical, but he did not explain. A school principal at First Baptist, Don Boyd, was not as cautious. He wrote me frankly, "If I see you I will punch you right in the mouth." Believe it or not, Boyd's official duties at the school involve discipline! We wonder what punishment this disciplinarian metes out to a kid who threatens to punch another kid in the mouth on school property?"

Brain is Engaged,...


If its been a few years since you read this it might make more sense now.

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_preface.php

 

[kaba]

I find it very interesting that this thread is mentioned and Quoted on the DRHAC facebook page...Marie Smith

 

[qwerty]

I find it very interesting that this thread is mentioned and Quoted on the DRHAC facebook page...Marie Smith

The do right crowd can always be found buzzing around a pile of stuff.  It's been awhile since they have been wrong about something, so figure they are looking for any tidbit to make them sound relevant.

 

[qwerty]

I was surprised that the mortgage during the Schaap years was actually not a budget item. Shocked!

Ok. I've got to ask. What in the world? I mean, I know DeCoster paid a bunch of payments, but you mean they actually reworked the budget so that the mortgage wasn't even in there at all? What kind of nonsense is that?

It was being paid by an "individual" and was not included in the budget.  There has yet to be anything said about the money that DeCoster gave, where it went, and why it was not used to pay the mortgage.

 

[qwerty]

The fund raising idea kind of upset some people. The people on charge of the finances that led to the current circumstances are still in charge. Secondly why not have people give their leased cars back as a way to raise money. People lost their jobs while others kept cars on a lease.

Just some thoughts?

I am guessing the FBCH is still the title holder on EL's home? Maybe he should make a generous contribution....

 

[Binaca Chugger]

Question:  Is FBCH behind on their payments, or did their loan get shopped and they are looking for a better deal? 

Payment not in budget, paid by an individual - eluding to that individual not paying anymore.