Bizarre but serious question

[Smellin Coffee]

To the church at Pergamum:

I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality...

and to the church at Thyatira:

...you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

John the Beloved never said such things.... He knew better.

Yeah, he was only penning what the angel of the Lord told him to write.

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

But if you have to ask, then that contradicts Paul's scriptural command not to ask (I would call it advice, which is what I think it is, but FSSL believes every word Paul said is God breathed, so according to him, it's a command from God himself).

I don't have to ask...these merchants will and have for centuries promoted their type of meat preparation in order to attack certain customers.

And that's my question.  Did the merchants label the meat so you would know which meat was from strangled animals? 

If so, what's your source for that?

Not sure I would have a direct source.  It makes sense to me that if I went to a kosher, or orthodox butcher the way he prepared meat would be apparent.  If I went to a pagan, ie Roman butcher, I could not be sure.

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

meat from an animal that died due to strangulation or prolonged hypoxia doesn;t even smell the same as meat from an animal which was slaughtered and died from rapid blood loss........... and i have no idea what it tastes like....... but i would never eat coz just from what i know of cellular biology i know it;s about as unhealthy as meat can get...........

True, which is why when I hunt either my elk or deer, I immediately hang and drain the blood.  And I don't eat one found on the side of the road.

Is that not a good idea?  I guess I have to cancel my possum dinner tonight.

As Aleshanee has stated...there is a definite difference in the two.  I would not trust any meat that was not properly killed and drained...but hey that's just me.  I know there are those who eat road kill!  Not this boy!

 

[praise_yeshua]

To the church at Pergamum:

I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality...

and to the church at Thyatira:

...you tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and seducing my servants to practice sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols.

John the Beloved never said such things.... He knew better.

Yeah, he was only penning what the angel of the Lord told him to write.

Paul said something similar. I know you don't accept things just because someone said it came from God. Don't be inconsistent.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

Paul said the meat is nothing. He was right...

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Did not know this thread was a matter of clean or unclean, but more to meat preparation.

Maybe so. I was dealing with both.

I think one is relative to the other.

 

[praise_yeshua]

How about food properly sacrificed to an idol? or "blood"?

smellin coffee was right about the blood...... it;s where diseases reside in the body even if the body itself isn;t sick.......  but there is another reason it should be avoided as a food source....... hemoglobin..... which contains large amounts of iron........ excessive consumption of iron leads to free radicals in the blood stream which bind to cholesterol ... and together have a caustic effect on the inner lining of the arteries........ .... it literally causes them to be scarred ...... plaque from fat and cholesterol then accumulates and builds up in those scarred areas and eventually leads to blockage of blood flow........ 


when it comes to animals sacrificed to idols....... i am assuming it;s because those animals are not gutted immediately when they are killed....  ???..... which is another essential element of doing a proper slaughter in addition to causing rapid blood loss.... ....

when an animal lies dead for a prolonged period with it;s guts and viscera intact ...... the fluids contained in the gut... (most of which is toxic).... starts to be absorbed by the meat.......  plus decomposition begins much faster when the gut is left in a dead carcass too.......  and again... the meat would not even smell right if it was cut up to be used for food after that........

I can agree with most of this. I do know... .that my mountain kinfolk would eat something that has been dead for a LONG TIME. They'd just cook it for a extended period of time. They might even make jerky out of it. Some of them lived for many years. Whiskey got some of them before bad eating got to them.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

meat from an animal that died due to strangulation or prolonged hypoxia doesn;t even smell the same as meat from an animal which was slaughtered and died from rapid blood loss........... and i have no idea what it tastes like....... but i would never eat coz just from what i know of cellular biology i know it;s about as unhealthy as meat can get...........

True, which is why when I hunt either my elk or deer, I immediately hang and drain the blood.  And I don't eat one found on the side of the road.

Is that not a good idea?  I guess I have to cancel my possum dinner tonight.

As Aleshanee has stated...there is a definite difference in the two.  I would not trust any meat that was not properly killed and drained...but hey that's just me.  I know there are those who eat road kill!  Not this boy!

I've eaten more than one dead rabbit. Usually a car will hit a rabbit in the head.... We'd drain them as much as we could. I wouldn't work with a hocky puck... but I'd skin a rabbit hit in the head by a car in heartbeat....

Its because of my "raising".

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Paul said something similar. I know you don't accept things just because someone said it came from God. Don't be inconsistent.

Key word 'similar'. John "bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw" which was a prerequisite to being one of the twelve. Here John claims to have received it from an angel, not Jesus Himself.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John...

Paul's claims were he would have sporadic visions in talking directly to Jesus. Neither John in Revelation nor Peter in Acts claimed that kind of contact. Both said they received it from an angel.

You continue making the case Paul's teaching was different than the Apostles' teaching. I'm glad someone else sees it enough to point it out even though you are on the other side of the argument.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Key word 'similar'. John "bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw" which was a prerequisite to being one of the twelve. Here John claims to have received it from an angel, not Jesus Himself.

Okay. Whatever you say. You're making an arbitrary choice. There are way and above more evidence for accepting Paul's words as being authority that anything with the book of Revelation.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John...

Yeah. If that makes you accept something as being from God..... then you're in trouble.

Paul's claims were he would have sporadic visions in talking directly to Jesus. Neither John in Revelation nor Peter in Acts claimed that kind of contact. Both said they received it from an angel.

Yeah. Peter claims an angel. Paul claims direct revelation from God. BIG difference there. Yeah. I hear you.

You continue making the case Paul's teaching was different than the Apostles' teaching. I'm glad someone else sees it enough to point it out even though you are on the other side of the argument.

I gave up trying to make them compliment one another many years ago. You're definitely on the losing side of the argument.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Yeah. If that makes you accept something as being from God..... then you're in trouble.

John admitted it wasn't direct revelation from Jesus Himself. Why? HE KNEW JESUS. He walked with Him on a daily basis over 3 years .

If Jesus were to appear to His apostles, it would seem He would give them all the same contact. No reason for Him to go directly to one whom He personally had not invested time while on earth and speak only through messenger to those He did invest in.

Yeah. Peter claims an angel. Paul claims direct revelation from God. BIG difference there. Yeah. I hear you.

And one was honest about the source of the revelation he had.

I gave up trying to make them compliment [sic] one another many years ago.

A lot of folks try to make them all gel. I couldn't justify doing it anymore and I'm glad there are others who consider likewise.

You're definitely on the losing side of the argument.

Who knows? I am calling it as I see it.

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

Paul said the meat is nothing. He was right...

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Did not know this thread was a matter of clean or unclean, but more to meat preparation.

Maybe so. I was dealing with both.

I think one is relative to the other.

You may be right...it would not be the first time the Lord gave both a medical and spiritual command to His people.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

meat from an animal that died due to strangulation or prolonged hypoxia doesn;t even smell the same as meat from an animal which was slaughtered and died from rapid blood loss........... and i have no idea what it tastes like....... but i would never eat coz just from what i know of cellular biology i know it;s about as unhealthy as meat can get...........

True, which is why when I hunt either my elk or deer, I immediately hang and drain the blood.  And I don't eat one found on the side of the road.

Is that not a good idea?  I guess I have to cancel my possum dinner tonight.

or..... ... you could get your possum from a can.... .
if it was packed in a u.s. inspected possum slaughter
house then it would probably be properly slaughtered
and butchered possum....  ??? .. .... ... hopefully....  :-\

I had a rather elaborate network of rabbit traps when I was a kid. I'd catch a possum every once in a while. You'd have to throw away the trap after you caught one. A rabbit would never go in it again. It was VERY difficult to get them out once they go in there. They'd hiss just like I thought a demon might sound. Right or wrong, no possum ever survived messing up one of my rabbit traps. I wouldn't kill one today but man are they ugly...

 

[T-Bone]

Maybe the same way that people today know if something is kosher...the merchant tells them that they have handled the slaughter and preparation of the meat in a kosher manner.  Could the merchant lie, and this not be so...sure but that would be on the merchant, not the customer.  Now once it has been found out that the merchant is not treating the meat properly, and the person still consumes it...then its on them.

meat from an animal that died due to strangulation or prolonged hypoxia doesn;t even smell the same as meat from an animal which was slaughtered and died from rapid blood loss........... and i have no idea what it tastes like....... but i would never eat coz just from what i know of cellular biology i know it;s about as unhealthy as meat can get...........

True, which is why when I hunt either my elk or deer, I immediately hang and drain the blood.  And I don't eat one found on the side of the road.

Is that not a good idea?  I guess I have to cancel my possum dinner tonight.

or..... ... you could get your possum from a can.... .
if it was packed in a u.s. inspected possum slaughter
house then it would probably be properly slaughtered
and butchered possum....  ??? .. .... ... hopefully....  :-\

Not gonna happen...not gonna eat a giant rodent, at least not unless I have to.  Here Arizona we have the Javelina, which many eat...but I don't eat giant rodents.  For those not from here the Javelina is not a wild pig...it is a rodent.

 

[T-Bone]

i have heard that both possums and javelinas smell just as bad alive as they do when several days dead......  .......... that right there would stop me from eating them even if i was on the verge of starving to death.......  :-X

I know javelinas certainly do...they are always dropping their waste on our front yard and you will definitely smell them before you see them!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

exactly right..... you want the meat you eat to be as healthy as possible and to be as close as possible to the same physiological state it was in when the animal was alive........ .

Aged beef tastes so much better than non-aged beef.  IMO, anyway.  But it's aged in a carefully controlled environment, or so I'm told.

 

[Ransom]

The commandment is nonsensical in many ways. James "the Just" didn't know what he was doing.

Law of Yeezy #1: Yeezy is never wrong. Ever.
Corollary #1: Anyone who contradicts What Yeezy Thinks is not merely wrong, but morally and/or intellectually deficient.

 

[Ransom]

That's very interesting, but it has nothing to do with my question.  How would they know in the meat market which meat came from strangled animals?

I imagine that an ethical Jew concerned about whether his food was kosher would ask. Or, since butchery wasn't performed in factories, he might have observed the butchers' practices for himself and known which ones to avoid.

 

[Ransom]

But if you have to ask, then that contradicts Paul's scriptural command not to ask (I would call it advice, which is what I think it is, but FSSL believes every word Paul said is God breathed, so according to him, it's a command from God himself). 

There's no contradiction. Paul's teaching is to eat the meat, no questions asked. If the purchaser knew for a fact that the animal had been strangled (and if the animal was hanging in the marketplace, it may very well have been obvious) then he could avoid buying it, just as if he was told that meat was sacrificed to idols, he would know to abstain.  If he didn't know, then it was of no consequence.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

That's very interesting, but it has nothing to do with my question.  How would they know in the meat market which meat came from strangled animals?

I imagine that an ethical Jew concerned about whether his food was kosher would ask. Or, since butchery wasn't performed in factories, he might have observed the butchers' practices for himself and known which ones to avoid.

But the recipients of the letter were gentiles.

 

[Recovering IFB]

My question would be that if the person was a woman who was preparing the meat was wearing yoga pants, would that bother anybodies conscience?