Can someone check this in the Hyles Church Manual...

[qwerty]

Announcement of transition from Pastor Tommy Ashcraft
The Mount Hebron Baptist Church was organized in June 1982. I've been his sole pastor during these more than thirty-three years. To a part of my personal relationship with the Lord and my family, has been the greatest delight of my life.
After much contemplation on many levels, having prayed and sought the council of wise people who love this ministry, I have decided that next Wednesday, January 20, to submit for your vote to our son, bro. Jonathan, to be the next pastor of this church.
To make this decision gives me mixed feelings. However, I believe that this decision is from the Lord.
Makes me think of what happens when a marriage has a daughter, the daughter grows up, gets to be a lady, falls in love with a man and are home. The Father would be cruel if she stopped you from taking that step, especially if he is convinced that her new relationship with that man would make him happy and it suits you.
That's what I feel in this case. As the father that his daughter away to her new husband, I'm not "leaving" this church, I'm introducing to the next stage of his life.
Bro. Jonathan has worked with me in the church and the biblical institute for more than eight years. God has given him an extraordinary vision for this ministry. I am convinced that it is the right man to take this position, and that this is the appropriate time to take this step. God has given us an extraordinary unity of vision for the ministry. I have been obvious fact during this past year and more
That God has given him to Jonathan a perspective of this ministry that he will continue to make progress in the right direction. His wife, Jenny, it's an amazing blessing to Jonathan, to us your in-laws, and to the church. It will be a tremendous wife of pastor.
I think of the bro. Jonathan what Paul said about Timothy in Philippians 2:19: I hope in the Lord Jesus to send timotheus shortly, so that I also may be of good cheer to hear of your state; 20 then to none I have the same spirit, and That so sincerely interested in you. Vs 22 but you already know the merits of him, that, as a son to father has served with me in the gospel.
I'm reasonably healthy physically and, God willing, I'll be able to travel extensively. My wife, Brenda, is still struggling with health issues, so I need to make sure their medical needs are catered for. Will accompany me as much as their health permits.
I have commitments to preach in more than 35 churches during this year, in Mexico, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Argentina and the United States. I'll be able to spend time with pastors, major but not exclusively with our graduates, helping them to develop their programmes of missions, Sunday school and personal evangelism. I also think to help men who are starting churches. This will give me the opportunity to recruit students for the institute. I also think to present the ministry of the institute in churches in the United States to raise funds for various projects. I want to do things to help this ministry that I don't, it would be possible to do as long as he stays
Here.
As you are. You can see I'm not retiring, or I'm retiring from the ministry of Mount Hebron. I'm planning to spend any time that the Lord will allow me to live by helping to promote and develop the ministry of the institute of Biblical Mount Hebron Baptist. This institution has trained more than 700 men and women who are serving God in eighteen different countries.
We really need your prayers and financial support as never before. The future of the ministry in which you. He has been involved for many years it's brighter than ever. The opportunities for expansion and growth are promising more than we've ever seen.
Our Annual Conference for pastors and workers is scheduled for February 15-18th, 2016. On Sunday, February 21, it will be my last day as a pastor of the church.
I have a conference scheduled in huejutla, Hidalgo, starting next Monday, 22 February, that is when it will start this new stage of our ministry. Coming back from this conference, my wife and I are going out of the area for a few weeks to give them time to bro. Jonathan and the congregation to settle to one another without that my presence is a distraction during that time so critical of their development.
For many years I have taught five classes in the institute: Pastoral Theology, marriage and family, missions, how to start a church and homiletics. Bro. Jonathan will take those classes. Are the classes that need to be taught by the pastor.
I've agreed to continue teaching in a modular way for three weeks in each semester. This will help me to maintain contact with the students and staff of the institute.
Now, let me talk about the vote.
1. A vote in favour of the bro. Jonathan is a vote in favour of mine. A vote against that bro. Jonathan is the pastor is not a vote in favour of that I will continue to be his pastor. My opinion is that any other decision would be a wrong decision.
2. This church has always followed my leadership, and I don't see why I should not do so in this matter.
3. My brother's recommendation. Jonathan is not a matter that he is inheriting "my ministry". It is not something that I'm doing for him. It's a decision that I think is the best for the well-being and the future stability of this church.
4 no one should do "campaign" to influence the decision of another member with regard to this decision, especially in a negative way. Allow each person to determine for themselves what is the will of God.
5. I can't find in the New Testament an established policy for the removal or the installation of pastor of a church. When the Apostle Paul established a church and the left, and he was a man that the pastoreara. There is no indication that any of those churches were to take a "vote". Just accepted the decision of the wise old man who they knew I loved them and he was looking for the best for them.
6 what will happen next Wednesday is simply to give the congregation an opportunity to express their support for the recommendation that its current pastor is doing.
If the vote goes as I hope, unanimously in favour of accepting the bro. Jonathan as his pastor, next Sunday in the night, bro. Jonathan will present some changes that he intends to do. I've seen that list, and I want to tell you that not only support to every thing, but I would have done some of them myself. They are all changes that they agree to the church, their programmes to their members.
Bro. Jonathan does not plan to remove anyone that is currently in a position of leadership if that person want to continue in that place. I'll be available to the bro. Jonathan not only during the next four weeks, but as soon as he thinks you need from my opinion or help in decisions that intends to take.
After the vote, we will take time in various cults to cover more in detail the procedures that we will continue to for this transition.
Like I said, I'm more excited than ever about the future of this ministry. I think we're going to see progress in every area of the ministry.
Please, pray for us during this time of transition.
Translated from Spanish

 

[Fresh Air]

I appreciate from a distance the ministry of both Ashcrafts, senior and junior.

...but this is Catholic not Baptist. It doesn't invalidate decades worth of good ministry. It doesn't make either of these men evil. Far from it. But neither is it in any way acceptable.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Yes, agreed, and not wise considering all the history of our movement.
Although it has worked out rather well for Liberty University and their 2 billion dollar endowment.
The younger Jerry had a great deal to do with saving the entire organization.

 

[prophet]

Absolutely a cult. 
What is funny, is that God made sure they actually put the word "cult" in the "translation".
Vote with me, or you're disloyal to God.
Don't talk to anyone about this.
This isn't really a vote, you just get to express your loyalty to me, by "voting" in my son.
I hope this is mistranslated.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

It would be interesting to see what the church constitution says.

 

[RAIDER]

What an unwise move.  If you are resigning, get out of the way and let the church decide.  If the pulpit committee feels that Jonathan is a good candidate they can move forward and take it to the church.  It sickens me that he is acting like a vote against Jonathan is a vote against him.

 

[Bruh]

Wow!

There's so much that could be said here.....you know, I'm not a member there and maybe the majority of the people want the son as pastor?

I shudder at the thought of the mentality there.

Not all pastors sons "have no manhood" but IMO, when something like this happens and is forced on the people (as it seems?) I can't help but think, go find a job dude!

I wonder what happens if the church doesn't vote the son in n, then what?

 

[prophet]

Wow!

There's so much that could be said here.....you know, I'm not a member there and maybe the majority of the people want the son as pastor?

I shudder at the thought of the mentality there.

Not all pastors sons "have no manhood" but IMO, when something like this happens and is forced on the people (as it seems?) I can't help but think, go find a job dude!

I wonder what happens if the church doesn't vote the son in n, then what?

Jonny is effeminate, as you have guessed.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I may not be the one to comment on this because my experience hasn't been good when pastors hire their kids and spouses.

One pastor hired his son and the majority of the church was against it but he did it anyway. The church ended up splitting over this. The church ran about 200 or so on Wednesday nights.

I became somewhat friends with the son and he tells me once, I was talking to my mom the other day and telling her how my basement wasn't finished so I put it on 4 credit cards to finish it out. He tells me that he was telling his mom this.

2 weeks later a raise in his salary is brought before the church. I told my wife, I guess he knows who to go to to get something.

He has an affair with a married lady in the church he's fired and about a year or so later the pastor meets with the men and says how the school needs a principal and wanted to know how they felt about hire his son back on staff to do this? He said it wouldn't be a pastoral role so he didn't see how this should be a problem.

Of course the men overwhelming said no. But he puts him on staff anyway. A few years pass he and his wife move out of state. Which was probably good for them for a host of reasons. I hope there doing good.

 

[Jim Jones]

JS was chose the exact same way.

DH would have been if he wasn't already divorced.

 

[Tennessean]

I, like all of you, am not a member of this church so it is really none of our business. The exception would be Bro. Ashcraft's sending church and any church that has supported him.

That being said, it would be interesting to watch and see what happens in the next several weeks. As a church member, I would not be in favor of anyone telling me who the next pastor will be. Suggestions and recommendations from the current pastor would be welcomed by a pulpit committee and should be prayed over.

I don't know anyone involved here, but the wording of this seems dangerous.

One thing to remember, a mission church started by a missionary is usually run a little differently than we run ours here in the US. A missionary on the field starts a church, trains a national, then turns the church over to that national. The missionary still frequents that church as he builds other works and in many cases acts as an adisor to his young "Timothy's."

Bro. Ashcraft has got to have an idea that his son will get the vote. Imagine the chaos in that church and institute if he doesn't.

And usually nationals will do what the American missionary says. Why? U.S. dollars.

 

[prophet]

JS was chose the exact same way.

DH would have been if he wasn't already divorced.

No he wasn't.

I was there, were you?

We had a procedure.

The people voted (with their hearts and not God's Wisdom).

I was surprised that he was the first candidate fielded, since Jack Hyles had publicly "given up on him", and "replaced himself" as pastor.

No, we made a tragic mistake, but we weren't buffaloed like this.

Earnestly Contend

 

[Bruh]

I, like all of you, am not a member of this church so it is really none of our business. The exception would be Bro. Ashcraft's sending church and any church that has supported him.

That being said, it would be interesting to watch and see what happens in the next several weeks. As a church member, I would not be in favor of anyone telling me who the next pastor will be. Suggestions and recommendations from the current pastor would be welcomed by a pulpit committee and should be prayed over.

I don't know anyone involved here, but the wording of this seems dangerous.

One thing to remember, a mission church started by a missionary is usually run a little differently than we run ours here in the US. A missionary on the field starts a church, trains a national, then turns the church over to that national. The missionary still frequents that church as he builds other works and in many cases acts as an adisor to his young "Timothy's."

Bro. Ashcraft has got to have an idea that his son will get the vote. Imagine the chaos in that church and institute if he doesn't.

And usually nationals will do what the American missionary says. Why? U.S. dollars.

If it's none of your business then why are you talking about this with us?

 

[prophet]

I, like all of you, am not a member of this church so it is really none of our business. The exception would be Bro. Ashcraft's sending church and any church that has supported him.

That being said, it would be interesting to watch and see what happens in the next several weeks. As a church member, I would not be in favor of anyone telling me who the next pastor will be. Suggestions and recommendations from the current pastor would be welcomed by a pulpit committee and should be prayed over.

I don't know anyone involved here, but the wording of this seems dangerous.

One thing to remember, a mission church started by a missionary is usually run a little differently than we run ours here in the US. A missionary on the field starts a church, trains a national, then turns the church over to that national. The missionary still frequents that church as he builds other works and in many cases acts as an adisor to his young "Timothy's."

Bro. Ashcraft has got to have an idea that his son will get the vote. Imagine the chaos in that church and institute if he doesn't.

And usually nationals will do what the American missionary says. Why? U.S. dollars.

If it's none of your business then why are you talking about this with us?

*Whistle Blows*

Foul on Bruh.

Use of excessive force (logic).

Earnestly Contend

 

[brainisengaged]

I am friends with the son's wife on facebook. I checked out her fb page. It seems hearty support and congratulations are the order of the day and no one seems to think anything untoward is happening.

UPDATE: She just announced on FB that her husband was voted in as new pastor, unanimously.

 

[Baptist City Holdout]

This seems to be the going thing in some of the IFBX world where the outgoing pastor chooses the new one. Sometimes not even to be put to a vote. Somehow they get this from Paul and Timothy. Must be in the KJVMICKEYMOUSE Version.

 

[Walt]

I appreciate from a distance the ministry of both Ashcrafts, senior and junior.

...but this is Catholic not Baptist. It doesn't invalidate decades worth of good ministry. It doesn't make either of these men evil. Far from it. But neither is it in any way acceptable.

Do you have an acceptable way?

What is being done here is becoming common among a certain stripe of IFB churches (I don't like it, but  they challenge me to show that voting is Biblical).  The attitude seems to be that the church belongs to the pastor. 

Bob Gray in Texas told the church that it was God's will for him to resign, but that he would only resign if they voted his son as the pastor.

In another church, the outgoing pastor picked his  successor, after many meetings in secret, and then said that he believe that his successor was God's will, so a "YES" vote was to vote for him and for God's will, and a "NO" vote was voting against God.  In an effort to  force a unanimous vote, they refused a secret ballot, and said that only votes with names would be counted.

I'm sure there are others

 

[Walt]

I wonder what happens if the church doesn't vote the son in, then what?

Then they get "spanked" in sermons for some time, and another vote is taken.

 

[Walt]

This seems to be the going thing in some of the IFBX world where the outgoing pastor chooses the new one. Sometimes not even to be put to a vote. Somehow they get this from Paul and Timothy. Must be in the KJVMICKEYMOUSE Version.

Absolutely.  I think some IFBx pastors are concerned because so many churches  get a pastor the traditional way, and then go "liberal".

The real problem is the lack of sound Biblical preaching in IFBx  churches -- they focus on works and tend to keep everyone working.  The people tend to be good at soul-winning, and tithing, and attending church, but don't know much about anything else, and are not qualified to be able to identify a spiritual man who can be pastor.

 

[Fresh Air]

Do you have an acceptable way?

Yes.  It isn't rocket science. The NT models a congregational form of church government in Acts 6. To assert differently on the strength of Paul's ability to appoint elders is to become popish.

We have failed to teach Baptist doctrine. Should it surprise us at all when Baptist churches then swallow a popish style of leadership?

Authoritarianism is easier than praying down the will of God and patiently leading people to see it and consent to it. Easier. Like sin always is...