Coming out as an Agnostic

Ransom said:
Smellin Coffee said:
No different than Manifest Destiny by white Christians in our country. To murder, rape, kidnap, steal and control is in the genes of Western Evangelicalism.

Exhibit B.

Don't you ever tire of basically being a chronic liar?

Now all I need to do is start groping women and hanging out with high school cheerleaders, asking them for personal favors. Then I qualify to become a Republican political candidate and can get the Evangelical vote! ;)
 
Trying to get the discussion back on track, since Joseph dodged (or missed) several questions, maybe the other agnostics/atheists would care to tackle a very important question....


If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?
 
ALAYMAN said:
Trying to get the discussion back on track, since Joseph dodged (or missed) several questions, maybe the other agnostics/atheists would care to tackle a very important question....


If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?
Not that you'll be convinced but since you asked....

https://youtu.be/7ImvlS8PLIo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 
ALAYMAN said:
Trying to get the discussion back on track, since Joseph dodged (or missed) several questions, maybe the other agnostics/atheists would care to tackle a very important question....


If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?
That's no problem for any of the atheists on this forum for you see, all the great scientific minds of today believe that the universe came from nothing!  That is not hyperbole, or some kind of parable. 

1.      ?It is now becoming clear that everything can?and probably did?come from nothing.? ?Robert A. J. Matthews, physicist, Ashton University, England

2.    ?Space and time both started at the Big Bang and therefore there was nothing before it.? ?Cornell University?s ?Ask an Astronomer?

3.      ?Some physicists believe our universe was created by colliding with another, but Kaku [a theoretical physicist at City University of New York] says it also may have sprung from nothing?? ?Scienceline.org

4.      ?Even if we don?t have a precise idea of exactly what took place at the beginning, we can at least see that the origin of the universe from nothing need not be unlawful or unnatural or unscientific.? ?Paul Davies, physicist, Arizona State University

5.      ?Assuming the universe came from nothing, it is empty to begin with?Only by the constant action of an agent outside the universe, such as God, could a state of nothingness be maintained. The fact that we have something is just what we would expect if there is no God.? ?Victor J. Stenger, Prof. Physics, University of Hawaii; author of God: The Failed Hypothesis

6.      ?Few people are aware of the fact that many modern physicists claim that things?perhaps even the entire universe?can indeed arise from nothing via natural processes.? ?Mark I. Vuletic, Creation Ex Nihilo?Without God

7.      ?To understand these facts we have to turn to science. Where did they all come from, and how did they get so darned outrageous? Well, it all started with nothing.? ??Fifty Outrageous Animal Facts,? Animal Planet

8.      ?To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing. But to a quantum physicist, nothing is, in fact, something.? ?Discover Magazine ?Physics & Math/Cosmology?

9.     ?It is rather fantastic to realize that the laws of physics can describe how everything was created in a random quantum fluctuation out of nothing, and how over the course of 15 billion years, matter could organize in such complex ways that we have human beings sitting here, talking, doing things intentionally.? ?Alan Harvey Guth, theoretical physicist and cosmologist, Discover Magazine

10.           ?The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.? ?Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor?s Tale
https://dailyevidence.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/%E2%80%9Catheists-do-not-claim-that-nothing-created-everything-%E2%80%9D/

Yes.  The Bible is true. 

Psa 14:1  The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Trying to get the discussion back on track, since Joseph dodged (or missed) several questions, maybe the other agnostics/atheists would care to tackle a very important question....


If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?

I believe in God and believe He is the Creator (probably creating mankind through evolutionary means), but couldn't the same question be asked about His existence?
 
ALAYMAN said:
If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?

This question first appeared several thousand years ago in the form of "Where did everything come from?"

There were basically two camps:

One camp dealt with the  question in the following manner:  "We don't know; let us see if we can figure out the answer."  This group began their quest using mostly guessing at first; improving upon that method as they went along,  poorly at first, improving their techniques until they ultimately discovered a more rigorous method, which today we call the scientific method,  resulting in today's currently accepted theories.

The other camp was far too impatient.  Instant gratification was what they wanted. They just had to have an answer right now!  So they invented an answer:  "God did it!"
 
Joseph007 said:
I've been a fundamentalist my entire life. I even met my wife in a Christian college. But I am now agnostic. I need advice on the best way to talk to my wife about it. How do I tell her that I no longer believe the Bible is "the word of God"?  She is still a believer. Looking for people that have been in this situation before and how they handled it. Or a spouse that was on the receiving end of this kind of revelation.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Women have the most difficult time in moving away from traditional concepts.  I understand your contention with the bible, but then God never promised us a perfect copy of His words. Are you sure your not throwing the baby out with the bath water? Do you really think that man was a fluke of nature?
 
Joseph007 said:
Not that you'll be convinced but since you asked....

https://youtu.be/7ImvlS8PLIo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Joseph, did you listen to that, ummm, presentation?

If so, what in it do you find plausible and credible that helps you answer my question?
 
Route_70 said:
ALAYMAN said:
If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?

This question first appeared several thousand years ago in the form of "Where did everything come from?"

There were basically two camps:

One camp dealt with the  question in the following manner:  "We don't know; let us see if we can figure out the answer."  This group began their quest using mostly guessing at first; improving upon that method as they went along,  poorly at first, improving their techniques until they ultimately discovered a more rigorous method, which today we call the scientific method,  resulting in today's currently accepted theories.

The other camp was far too impatient.  Instant gratification was what they wanted. They just had to have an answer right now!  So they invented an answer:  "God did it!"

You didn't answer the question (at least no meaningfully).  Describing theories about origins is not answering the question of how something comes from nothing.  You are a mathematician, trained in the scientific method I presume.  Have you ever seen something come from nothing, or a flying spaghetti monster?
 
Smellin Coffee said:
I believe in God and believe He is the Creator (probably creating mankind through evolutionary means), but couldn't the same question be asked about His existence?

Can something be eternal and not deity by definition?
 
Route_70 said:
This question first appeared several thousand years ago in the form of "Where did everything come from?"

There were basically two camps:

One camp dealt with the  question in the following manner:  "We don't know; let us see if we can figure out the answer."  This group began their quest using mostly guessing at first; improving upon that method as they went along,  poorly at first, improving their techniques until they ultimately discovered a more rigorous method, which today we call the scientific method,  resulting in today's currently accepted theories.

The other camp was far too impatient.  Instant gratification was what they wanted. They just had to have an answer right now!  So they invented an answer:  "God did it!"

Nice.

Have you ever considered a career as a fiction author? You seem to excel at tall tales.
 
Smellin Coffee said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Ransom said:
Smellin Coffee said:
No different than Manifest Destiny by white Christians in our country. To murder, rape, kidnap, steal and control is in the genes of Western Evangelicalism.

Exhibit B.

Don't you ever tire of basically being a chronic liar?

Chronic liar!?
Add that to his list of accomplishments:
Founder and arbiter of his own religion.
Keeper of his own, personal canon of positive reinforcement.
Department chair of the Elmer Fudd School of Theology and Astrology.
Designer of the Michael Brown ?Hands Up Dont Shoot Because Only Black Lives Matter? Souvenir  Whoopi Cushion.

Man, do I LOOOOVE being labeled by the fundy crowd!

b3f834c762c3f59d9a0b0a931bfa144d7928e773.jpg

OK...you're an apostate!
Happy to oblige.
 
ALAYMAN said:
You didn't answer the question (at least no meaningfully).  Describing theories about origins is not answering the question of how something comes from nothing.  You are a mathematician, trained in the scientific method I presume.  Have you ever seen something come from nothing, or a flying spaghetti monster?

Well, actually I did answer your question, ALAzYMAN.  You can no more assertively tell me how the universe began than I can tell you.  You do not know and neither do I.  You cannot prove there is a God, and I cannot prove that there is  not.  All we have is what we choose to believe.  We have nothing else.

I will add this however:  belief in a supreme being is pure myth.  Perhaps there is a supreme creator of the universe.  I don't know and you don't know.  But all of the information that we have about the one you call God, we get from pure mythology.  There is no other source.
 
Route_70 said:
ALAYMAN said:
You didn't answer the question (at least no meaningfully).  Describing theories about origins is not answering the question of how something comes from nothing.  You are a mathematician, trained in the scientific method I presume.  Have you ever seen something come from nothing, or a flying spaghetti monster?

Well, actually I did answer your question, ALAzYMAN.  You can no more assertively tell me how the universe began than I can tell you.  You do not know and neither do I.  You cannot prove there is a God, and I cannot prove that there is  not.  All we have is what we choose to believe.  We have nothing else.

I will add this however:  belief in a supreme being is pure myth.  Perhaps there is a supreme creator of the universe.  I don't know and you don't know.  But all of the information that we have about the one you call God, we get from pure mythology.  There is no other source.

Try to keep up.  I didn't ask you if there was a God or gods.  I asked you, as a scientist, to make a reasonable effort to explain how something can come from nothing.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Smellin Coffee said:
I believe in God and believe He is the Creator (probably creating mankind through evolutionary means), but couldn't the same question be asked about His existence?

Can something be eternal and not deity by definition?

Mythology paints various heavenly bodies as deity. I'm sure there are those who would deify the earth and cosmos as well.

I don't know if/how anything or anyone, deity or not can exist outside the parameters of time. Not being rude or a smart aleck here, but I'm not that smart so I don't have any answer for you.

Personally, I believe God has always existed and at some point created the world/cosmos. I don't have science to back me up on this, but this is my belief based on faith. That doesn't make it either fact or fiction.
 
ALAYMAN said:
Trying to get the discussion back on track, since Joseph dodged (or missed) several questions, maybe the other agnostics/atheists would care to tackle a very important question....


If at any time in the existence of the universe there was nothing, how did something come from nothing?




It makes absolutely no sense to me to say that there was not a designer; that there was nothing or NOone and still something exploded on its on and became the glorious world and universe that we have today. To me, this is scientific PEER PRESSURE.

I strongly suspect that there is a designer.

But as far as the Big Bang goes, why wouldn't that go hand in hand with Genesis 1:1?  As I understand it, the Hebrew word used there means to make something out of nothing. Why couldn't God have used the Big Bang to create the Universe - creating something out of nothing?

Why couldn't this god, whoever he is or they are,  USED the big bang and then evolution to get to where we are today?  For those of you that believe in the Bible, WHY must what science says, contradict the Bible?  God made something out of nothing.

Ok,

Why couldn't he have done it by the Big bang - which was something coming from nothing?

I don't see the necessity of Biblical believers always being at odds with science when you both are saying the same thing: that something came from nothing.

Scientists believe that something came from nothing and no one

Theists believe that SomeOne created something from nothing. 

It seems like the difference between the two camps is the Source, not the method.







 
ALAYMAN said:
Joseph007 said:
Not that you'll be convinced but since you asked....

https://youtu.be/7ImvlS8PLIo

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Joseph, did you listen to that, ummm, presentation?

If so, what in it do you find plausible and credible that helps you answer my question?
I did. It was in the presentation. You must have missed it. Watch it again when you get a chance.

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ALAYMAN said:
Try to keep up. 

Then slow down.

ALAYMAN said:
I didn't ask you if there was a God or gods.  I asked you, as a scientist, to make a reasonable effort to explain how something can come from nothing.

I am not a scientist, ALAYzMAN.  Besides, I am not the one who claims that something came from nothing.  You explain it.
 
Joseph007 said:
I did. It was in the presentation. You must have missed it. Watch it again when you get a chance.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I listened too, but you offered it as proof of how something comes from nothing, so I asking you what you heard and to respond here in this forum so that I can address specifically your argument (taken from the video).
 
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