Route_70 said:
First, I don't base my arguments on what I "believe." I read the science, and follow the latest developments, and contemplate the current theories, and report that. So, do not ascribe my position to my "beliefs." Besides, what I believe, and what you believe is irrelevant to the facts of what is, and has no effect on the truth.
First, for your
first, your understanding of "belief" is flawed, as even science has a certain set of "givens" and presuppositions that is inherent to it. As such, metaphysics, logic, and other parameters necessary for arriving at "truth" make your declaration about "what you believe" to be fairly nonsensical. Second, "I read the science" seems to imply some sort of monolithic view of "science". There are no singular views within the scientific community on ANY subject, particularly cosmology.
R70 said:
Please show me. Please direct me to your source of credible evidence. Never mind. Don't show me; because there is no such "evidence." The math behind the physics strongly suggests that there could not have been "nothing;" there had to be something. In short, "something" cannot come from "nothing," according to the physics/math.
Scientists that I gave you sources for say that the universe had a beginning, but you deny that? The most that scientists generally state is that they cannot know what preceded the big bang (by empirical evidence, which is what science is), but you declare otherwise?
R70 said:
Okay, here is one of the major misunderstandings among the laity: just because something had a beginning, does not necessarily mean that something had a beginning from nothing. Do you not see the difference?
Nope, what I have said that from the beginning is that if there was EVER a time when there was nothing then there would still be nothing. You say matter and space is eternal (contrary to what conventional science generally refutes) whereas I say that God is the one who best suits the concept of eternality.
R70 said:
It is just assumed among the lesser educated that before the universe began, there was nothing.
Wrong again. It is assumed by the scientific naturalist that he doesn't know what was before the big bang, but he certainly is at a metaphysical impasse in trying to explain how something caused this phenomenon, whereas the theologian says that there was never a time when there was no thing, because God always existed.
R70 said:
You are only expressing your assumption. Credible scientists who study such things do not teach that before the universe began there was nothing,
If you would have watched the video you would have seen one of the current world's most renowned physicist say that very thing, but keep speaking in vague generalities that don't match truth.
R70 said:
and that all of a sudden there was a "bang," then something existed. That is not what they believe. That is what you have been told by those who know nothing about it, other than it goes against their precious, close-to-the-heart beliefs.
And threatens their livelihood.
No, again, you misrepresent what has been said. Some scientists claim something came from nothing (ala Dr Krauss), but even then they equivocate on what the word "nothing" means, but most just declare agnostic views because they know that they won't ever know what happened at the moment of creation because science is limited to observation. Nobody has told me what you claim that they have told me because you are just pulling stuff out of your posterior, making it up as you go along. For a fella that knows so much more than anybody else on the forum you sure do make a lot of stuff up.