Demons and demon possession

I never said that I do NOT believe in demons. I said that I am not convinced. There is a difference. I'm quiet aware that I could be wrong and that there really could be life after death and a horrible fate awaiting me because of my lack of conviction on biblical issues. How ironic it is that in my past, I have asked Christ to apply his blood to my account and yet, because I'm not convinced that it's even necessary (no after life), that I still will meet an horrific fate.

I couldn't help but notice that the three people questioning my interest in this subject, are the three that did not attempt to help me with my questions. That's ok. I just wonder, if instead of demons, the subject of my post would have been: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", would you have told me to go find out for myself? Would you have asked me why I am interested in such a subject.

That you have treated my post so lightly, is your right and privilege. I clearly remember years ago when we non believers were chained and placed in the basement to await your occasional visit.

I was just trying to start a conversation about this frightening subject. I thought that some of you would have more of an interest in this subject than you seem to.

It's ok.
Gringo, I apologize for some of my friends here! Many have little desire for meaningful theological discussion as you may notice that the most active threads have things to do with "What are you listening to" or silly pursuits like participation in the "Longest thread in the history of the FFF" (I started it - guilty, but did so to prove a point). When attention is directed towards spiritual matters, pride and arrogance often dominates the conversation and the goal is more often defending one's "Position" rather than "What saith the scriptures!" When someone such as yourself come into our midst, we should be reminded as to why God has placed us where he has and to redirect us to our chief mission so I do thank you for being here!

I believe that many are frustrated with your state of disbelief and why won't you just "Get saved." You perfectly illustrate the fact that salvation is "Of God and By God," and is all of God, all of Grace, and none of us! The new birth is something that is every bit as supernatural and miraculous as your first birth. No one asks to be born but everyone who is born desires to LIVE! One who has not been "raised to life" has no interest in life because he has no comprehension of what such a life means!

You seem to be somewhat of an anomaly being that you are unconverted yet you have a deep curiosity and an interest in spiritual matters? In other words, you are an unbeliever but not a scoffing unbeliever!

My understanding is that you had once "Professed Christ" and spent time at one of the "Fundamentalist" Bible Colleges mentioned here? You had a "Bad Experience" which pushed you away from God and Christianity but yet something within you desires to believe there is "Truth" to be found somewhere?

The "Two Sides of the Same Coin" analogy comes up often when we speak of salvation. Perhaps there are many "Coins" or perhaps just many facets to where the "Coin" analogy simply falls short? The two sides I wish to focus upon are that of "God's Sovereignty" and "Man's Responsibility." God is sovereign in whom he saves and no one is saved aside from God's unconditional grace! However, man has the responsibility to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL! I recall listening to a lecture from John Gerstner speaking of a small group in his congregation who were unconverted yet had been "Waiting for years for God to 'regenerate' them." Something just doesn't sit right with me regarding such a situation. It is true that God must "regenerate" one to repentance and faith whereby they may believe but we are also COMMANDED BY GOD to repent and believe the gospel so which is it?

I would therefore ask you some probing questions as to what may be holding you back from trusting Christ? I understand this is a public forum so please do not feel compelled to share all your dark secrets. You know them and God most certainly does and this is what matters. The scriptures say that it is OUR SINS that have separated us from God (Isa 59:2) and the specifics of such sin differs from one to the other but with the same result. I would say that perhaps the greatest sin is that of pride, that we are quite content with our lives and that we desire to live our life apart and outside of God's sovereignty! We desperately desire to hold on to such sin and to convince ourselves that all is well! Notice that the world looks for answers anywhere and everywhere else besides God? What are you holding onto?

I do pray that faith FINDS YOU my friend! You can message me if you would like to talk personally.
 
I’m not trying to be crass to Gringo, but I’ve been where he’s at, other than I didn’t attend a Christian college. I grew up in church and had thousands of exposures to Scripture. For the most part, I rejected it for many years, but ultimately I came to a crossroads where I had to either choose God or self, or put another way, good vs evil. If someone has had the privilege of growing up in a Christian family, church, Christian college, etc., actively chooses to reject God, then only they can choose to correct that mindset. No amount of cajoling a person with what they already know is going to do any good, in my experience.
 
Biscuit1953 and Baptist Renegade,

Thank you for your perspectives.
And, your kindness towards me.

Huk, I know you don't mean any unkindness towards me as well. You're just honest and straight forward.

I wish you all a great day.
 
Gringo, I apologize for some of my friends here! Many have little desire for meaningful theological discussion as you may notice that the most active threads have things to do with "What are you listening to" or silly pursuits like participation in the "Longest thread in the history of the FFF" (I started it - guilty, but did so to prove a point). When attention is directed towards spiritual matters, pride and arrogance often dominates the conversation and the goal is more often defending one's "Position" rather than "What saith the scriptures!" When someone such as yourself come into our midst, we should be reminded as to why God has placed us where he has and to redirect us to our chief mission so I do thank you for being here!

I believe that many are frustrated with your state of disbelief and why won't you just "Get saved." You perfectly illustrate the fact that salvation is "Of God and By God," and is all of God, all of Grace, and none of us! The new birth is something that is every bit as supernatural and miraculous as your first birth. No one asks to be born but everyone who is born desires to LIVE! One who has not been "raised to life" has no interest in life because he has no comprehension of what such a life means!

You seem to be somewhat of an anomaly being that you are unconverted yet you have a deep curiosity and an interest in spiritual matters? In other words, you are an unbeliever but not a scoffing unbeliever!

My understanding is that you had once "Professed Christ" and spent time at one of the "Fundamentalist" Bible Colleges mentioned here? You had a "Bad Experience" which pushed you away from God and Christianity but yet something within you desires to believe there is "Truth" to be found somewhere?

The "Two Sides of the Same Coin" analogy comes up often when we speak of salvation. Perhaps there are many "Coins" or perhaps just many facets to where the "Coin" analogy simply falls short? The two sides I wish to focus upon are that of "God's Sovereignty" and "Man's Responsibility." God is sovereign in whom he saves and no one is saved aside from God's unconditional grace! However, man has the responsibility to REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL! I recall listening to a lecture from John Gerstner speaking of a small group in his congregation who were unconverted yet had been "Waiting for years for God to 'regenerate' them." Something just doesn't sit right with me regarding such a situation. It is true that God must "regenerate" one to repentance and faith whereby they may believe but we are also COMMANDED BY GOD to repent and believe the gospel so which is it?

I would therefore ask you some probing questions as to what may be holding you back from trusting Christ? I understand this is a public forum so please do not feel compelled to share all your dark secrets. You know them and God most certainly does and this is what matters. The scriptures say that it is OUR SINS that have separated us from God (Isa 59:2) and the specifics of such sin differs from one to the other but with the same result. I would say that perhaps the greatest sin is that of pride, that we are quite content with our lives and that we desire to live our life apart and outside of God's sovereignty! We desperately desire to hold on to such sin and to convince ourselves that all is well! Notice that the world looks for answers anywhere and everywhere else besides God? What are you holding onto?

I do pray that faith FINDS YOU my friend! You can message me if you would like to talk personally.
I pray faith finds him, too.....
Now, that being said, you sound overly pious, brother. Running for head pharisee? LOL
 
I’m not trying to be crass to Gringo, but I’ve been where he’s at, other than I didn’t attend a Christian college. I grew up in church and had thousands of exposures to Scripture. For the most part, I rejected it for many years, but ultimately I came to a crossroads where I had to either choose God or self, or put another way, good vs evil. If someone has had the privilege of growing up in a Christian family, church, Christian college, etc., actively chooses to reject God, then only they can choose to correct that mindset. No amount of cajoling a person with what they already know is going to do any good, in my

I agree with the Mayans and Incans, with the Egyptians and Greeks, with the Iraqis and Iranis AND with the Hebrews that there must be someone bigger than ourselves who, indeed, causes the spring flowers to bloom and the the autumn leaves to fall.

That I have rejected ONE MORE god than you - as literal, does not mean that I hate the idea of a Supreme Being, greater than myself.

You seem to believe that I KNOW that the Hebrew God, Jehovah, is real, and that I have simply chosen to turn my back on him.

Why?
 
I agree with the Mayans and Incans, with the Egyptians and Greeks, with the Iraqis and Iranis AND with the Hebrews that there must be someone bigger than ourselves who, indeed, causes the spring flowers to bloom and the the autumn leaves to fall.
OK, so you’re a theist. Correct?
That I have rejected ONE MORE god than you - as literal, does not mean that I hate the idea of a Supreme Being, greater than myself.
What you’re rejecting is Christianity.
You seem to believe that I KNOW that the Hebrew God, Jehovah, is real, and that I have simply chosen to turn my back on him.

Why?
For three reasons: (1) you’ve had exposure to the Christian faith through a Christian family, church, and college (unless I misunderstood your story and what I read here); (2) your admission of theism: it’s impossible to believe in theism and pantheism at the same time because it’s contradictory; (3) you’re here on this Christian forum asking questions of faith, which again, only affirms points #1 and #2 stated above.
 
You seem to believe that I KNOW that the Hebrew God, Jehovah, is real, and that I have simply chosen to turn my back on him.

Why?
I find it interesting that in your OP you asked for verses to support answers to your questions because you were asking for documentation from a volume you have rejected. I say this based on this block of verses:

As the Scriptures say, “I am placing a cornerstone in Jerusalem, chosen for great honor, and anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”Yes, you who trust him recognize the honor God has given him. But for those who reject him, “The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone.”And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them. - 1 Peter 2:6-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter2:6-8&version=NLT

You claim to believe in a "greater supernatural power " Well, James 2:19 has a word for you:

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

You are in agreement with among others, Greeks and Hebrews about the existence of "higher power" well, here's a Hebrew addressing a bunch of Greeks in Athens:

So Paul, standing before the council, addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way,for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.“He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples,and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need. From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.“His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us. For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’ And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.“God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him. For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.” - Acts 17:22-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts17:22-31&version=NLT

Do you accept these verses as you were presumably willing to do in your searching for answers about demons?

When one reads the Bible he must deal with the claims of the Scriptures: Namely, the absolute authority of the one God and His Word who created everything that exists (Gen.1 John 1) and the exclusive nature of His commands.

Again, I would commend to you the whole of the Scriptures, Genesis to Revelation. Something impossible to convey in this limited format. You seem to be scholarly, not afraid to crack open the books and do the work of research for yourself. Discover for yourself the overall claims of the Scriptures as it has to do with your place before God. Ask questions of those who know and live the Word of God, as you are doing now, but be ready to accept the whole Word. Not just the parts you like and then disregard the parts that don't affirm your preferences.
 
You seem to believe that I KNOW that the Hebrew God, Jehovah, is real, and that I have simply chosen to turn my back on him.

Why?
Gringo, its not just you but ALL who outside of Christ!

Romans 1:21 - Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

A "Natural Man" (One who is dead in trespasses and sin - Eph 2:1) CHOOSES NOT to believe the things that are CLEARLY SEEN (Rom 1:20) but moreover chooses to believe anything and everything BESIDES these things! You are no different, you are not special.

Ask yourself this: Why would a book written over the course of over 1500 years by over 40 different authors of differing backgrounds, education levels, and walks of life on three different continents (Africa, Europe, Asia), and written in three original languages (Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic) be so thematically united and portray mankind in a very unflattering light?

If the scriptures came solely from men, wouldn't these scriptures portray mankind in a much more positive light as does every single other world religion?

Praying for you my friend!
 
Gringo probably knows the Scriptures as well or better than us. I know the speed limit, but sometimes I ignore what I know is right. Hopefully he’ll one day follow what he already knows is right.
 
Gringo probably knows the Scriptures as well or better than us. I know the speed limit, but sometimes I ignore what I know is right. Hopefully he’ll one day follow what he already knows is right.
Then why the questions in the OP?
 
I’m not trying to be crass to Gringo, but I’ve been where he’s at, other than I didn’t attend a Christian college. I grew up in church and had thousands of exposures to Scripture. For the most part, I rejected it for many years, but ultimately I came to a crossroads where I had to either choose God or self, or put another way, good vs evil. If someone has had the privilege of growing up in a Christian family, church, Christian college, etc., actively chooses to reject God, then only they can choose to correct that mindset. No amount of cajoling a person with what they already know is going to do any good, in

OK, so you’re a theist. Correct?

What you’re rejecting is Christianity.

For three reasons: (1) you’ve had exposure to the Christian faith through a Christian family, church, and college (unless I misunderstood your story and what I read here); (2) your admission of theism: it’s impossible to believe in theism and pantheism at the same time because it’s contradictory; (3) you’re here on this Christian forum asking questions of faith, which again, only affirms points #1 and #2 stated above.
 
I couldn't help but notice that the three people questioning my interest in this subject, are the three that did not attempt to help me with my questions.
That's not true. One of your questions was about the demons' supposed subjection to mortals, and I addressed that.
 
Ekklesian, I do apologize to you. I went back and indeed you did address it and I appreciate it. Once again, I apologize. I'll blame my overlook on my old age (maybe I can get by with it, that way :))

You men could very well be correct.

I don't know.

I am an agnostic, not a theist. I simply don't believe we can know for a certainty about things of this nature. I don't know and, I believe that you don't know either.

Faith really is a great thing for one to have: you are sure of things that can't be proven and upon your deathbed, if you have lived a life faithful to that which you believe, you can look forward to your death. I know of such a one that died just last week and was looking forward to what awaited him.

It can be interpreted, and indeed, is, by many, that faith is not given to everyone. Perhaps I was not extended this gift that Paul talks of on at least two occasions.

Despite you feeling that I need to "repent" and that I am rebellious and don't want anything to do with God - because Paul said so, I wish you each the very best.

PS. Huk, you mentioned my family. Indeed, I had the very best parents in the entirety of the world - both past, present and future. Bless their angelic memories.
 
I always thought you conducted yourself much better than most on here (including previous iterations of the forum).
Thank you. I clicked on your FB and realized that I have known of you for years, first on FFF and then I've "seen you around" on FB (mutual friends) Thanks, again.
 
I am an agnostic, not a theist. I simply don't believe we can know for a certainty about things of this nature. I don't know and, I believe that you don't know either.
But there was a time you thought you did know for certain….
 
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