Donald Trump

subllibrm said:
I’m trying to figure out what “all of this”is. 🙂
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Everything we are talking about in this thread revolves around the state of our nation(s) and the character of our leaders. Not unlike what was troubling Habakkuk in his day. Honestly, I cannot imagine how a believer can read any of the OT and not draw some parallels between the nation of Israel and our society. The opening verses of Habakkuk reflect what I often cry out when I consider the state of society today. Through the book, the Lord makes Habakkuk to understand His character and that above all, He alone is righteous and just and will carry out His will. We aren't called to understand; we are merely to wait on Him.

Therefore, it doesn't matter where we fall in this debate, the matter is are we going to wait on Him in faith?
 
Ransom said:
Everything that happens to Samson in Judges happened because he was a womanizer, except for bringing the Philistine temple down, and that was to avenge his eyes. So no.
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Yet God had a part in Samson’s birth and chose him to lead Israel.
God is sovereign and uses means we might not ‘agree with’ to accomplish His purpose.

I‘m under no illusion about Trump or the Republican Party.
I think it was Calvin who said that God judges a nation by giving them poor rulers.
With Trump - Biden, maybe we've hit the judgment jackpot…but given that choice, with the contrasting policy platforms, Trump is a no brainer.

And, as I said before, Canada didn’t faring any better in the leadership department.
 
I'm under no delusion either. It's been ages since my vote hasn't been for someone as much as it's been against someone else.
 
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The last election I voted in without holding my nose was Reagan’s 1st. Then I realized the GOP sees the church the same way the democrats see black voters.
 
subllibrm said:
The last election I voted in without holding my nose was Reagan’s 1st. Then I realized the GOP sees the church the same way the democrats see black voters.
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and your point?...... i know black democrats who are well aware the party of donkeys only uses them for votes.... but they still vote for them because it gets them what they want..... or at least what they think they want... ..i vote for republicans because their policies are better for the country... . whatever their attitude towards the church might be is irrelevant to me... . i am well aware most republicans don;t believe in God any more than a left wing democrat does.... but i;m not voting for them to govern my church.... just to govern the country....
 
subllibrm said:
The last election I voted in without holding my nose was Reagan’s 1st. Then I realized the GOP sees the church the same way the democrats see black voters.
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So you don't vote on the basis of policy? Even when it is good policy?
 
FSSL said:
So you don't vote on the basis of policy? Even when it is good policy?
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Did I say how I voted other than with my nose plugged? Several of the folks here have said the same thing relative to their votes for Mr. Trump.
 
subllibrm said:
Did I say how I voted other than with my nose plugged? Several of the folks here have said the same thing relative to their votes for Mr. Trump.
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Why did you have to plug your nose for Regan's second term? Was it because he was divorced? His wife played with witchcraft? Or his economic policies?
 
FSSL said:
Why did you have to plug your nose for Regan's second term? Was it because he was divorced? His wife played with witchcraft? Or his economic policies?
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I have covered this ground already. Because he had no serious interest in the issue of abortion other thn to string the religious right along. I actually like his economic policies but when "we" were told that abortion would have to wait until the economy was fixed, I lost much respect for the GOP as a whole.
 
subllibrm said:
I lost much respect for the GOP as a whole.
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I have been disappointed in the GOP for almost as long as you. My first time voting was in '84. That was when I existed in the delusion that the GOP was going to fix America. After '84, was when I began voting against the Dems.
 
abcaines said:
I have been disappointed in the GOP for almost as long as you. My first time voting was in '84. That was when I existed in the delusion that the GOP was going to fix America. After '84, was when I began voting against the Dems.
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A term limit on the President essentially prevents the solidification of meaningful reform.
 
subllibrm said:
I don’t know that such a person could ever be nominated by either party. Look at how Mike Pence was treated for his desire to be faithful to his wife. Maybe I missed it but I don’t recall the Republican Party standing up for him. That includes the evangelical world. No, they chose to get behind a man who displays zero character qualities worthy of emulation.

Lower taxes are not worth the cost to the reputation of the Bride of Christ.
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Don't vote for the personality or the man; Vote for his policies
 
subllibrm said:
The church is going to have to repent of her idolatry in worshiping the political process. The answer has never been to fix the country with policies and regulations. Our generation has played the political game while shirking our responsibilities to change the world by way of the gospel.

Judgement is coming and the church cannot deny her negligence.
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The church has a lot to repent of including refusing to speak out on moral issues that plague our nation. If this were 1860 before the start of the Civil War, many churches today would say we don’t want to be involved in politics and would refuse to take a public stand on chattel slavery. They would say it is a “political issue” and don’t want to offend someone that may hold a different view. Charles Spurgeon received numerous death threats and his sermons were burned in the streets for his stand against slavery.

“I do from my inmost soul detest slavery . . . and although I commune at the Lord’s table with men of all creeds, yet with a slave-holder I have no fellowship of any sort or kind. Whenever one has called upon me, I have considered it my duty to express my detestation of his wickedness, and I would as soon think of receiving a murderer into my church . . . as a man stealer” (Pike, The Life and Work of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, p. 331).
www.spurgeon.org

The Spurgeon Library | The Reason Why America Burned Spurgeon’s Sermons and Sought to Kill Him

www.spurgeon.org www.spurgeon.org

In Germany during the second World War there were countless churches that knew of the death camps but refused to speak out. They didn’t want to get involved in “politics.” After a speech, pro-life activist Penny Lea was approached by an old man. Weeping, he told her the following story:

"I lived in Germany during the Nazi holocaust. I considered myself a Christian. I attended church since I was a small boy. We had heard the stories of what was happening to the Jews, but like most people today in this country, we tried to distance ourselves from the reality of what was really taking place. What could anyone do to stop it?

A railroad track ran behind our small church, and each Sunday morning we would hear the whistle from a distance and then the clacking of the wheels moving over the track. We became disturbed when one Sunday we noticed cries coming from the train as it passed by. We grimly realized that the train was carrying Jews. They were like cattle in those cars! "Their screams tormented us . . . If some of their screams reached our ears we'd just sing a little louder."
https://www.repentamerica.com/singalittlelouder.html

The hypocrisy of subllibrm is deafening. To say Christian leaders should not open their mouths about the moral decay we are facing is unforgivable. To use “politics” as a wedge to silence any support for anyone opposing the ungodly and evil policies of the current Democratic party because that person does not have a born again testimony whether it is Donald Trump or anyone else is no different than those churches before the Civil War or the churches in Germany who didn’t want to take a controversial stand.

You can’t preach the gospel without showing people their sins. The apostle Paul spoke out on the moral and social issues of his day.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

The Church should not fall into a state of fatalism believing Que Sera Sera, whatever will be will be. God has given us the privilege of voting for our leaders. It isn’t tribalism to stand up against evil. We should pray that God would change the hearts of our leaders, including President Biden while doing what we can to preserve the freedoms so many have died for.
 
biscuit1953 said:
The church has a lot to repent of including refusing to speak out on moral issues that plague our nation. If this were 1860 before the start of the Civil War, many churches today would say we don’t want to be involved in politics and would refuse to take a public stand on chattel slavery. They would say it is a “political issue” and don’t want to offend someone that may hold a different view. Charles Spurgeon received numerous death threats and his sermons were burned in the streets for his stand against slavery.
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No issue with speaking out on moral issues. I wish the church would do more of that. The issue for me is that the church is taking the lazy road by trying to utilize politics (a worldly pursuit if ever there was one) to achieve goals that are outside of political calculations. Some trust in chariots or so I've heard.

BTW What political leaders, power brokers, movers and shakers did Mr. Spurgeon align himself with? I have been reading a lot of historical material from the civil war era and I don't recall his name coming up.

- I suppose his British citizenship limited the amount of his direct involvement here.
 
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