Dr. Peter S. Ruckman Clip, "Revelation 12: Future Fall of Angels"

[Timothy]

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV)

When scripture says "every word", why is it assumed it refers to the actual written words here on earth? Why couldn't "every word" actually mean "every inspired word from God to man?" Quoting Adam Clark, "Every thing that God has pronounced, every inspiration which the prophets have received, is pure, without mixture of error, without dross."

I don't believe the Bible is a verbatim record of the actual words of God. I believe Holy Spirit filled men wrote inspired words from God in their own style. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John illustrate this very well in their different ways of telling the same story.

 

[Ransom]

May it be the reason that you do not respect them is because they hold to the authority of One Bible?

Who cares what authority they hold to, when they aren't competent to interpret it for the rest of us?

No. It is not a "made up" definition. It is the truth.

I'll believe it when you prove it. We have a Bible Version forum down there. If you want to make a positive, scriptural case for exclusively "believing" the KJV, then go at it.  Until you do, all we have is "Biblebeliever says so." Which doesn't carry an ounce of weight with me.

If you don't believe that God wrote one Book.

The Scriptures didn't exist as "one Book" until 3 centuries after they were written. We have a Bible version forum down there.  If you want to make a positive, scriptural case that "God wrote one Book," have at it.

If you don't believe that the Bible is perfect and without error, then you don't believe the Bible.

Never said I didn't believe that.

Hence, you are not a Bible believer. If you want to be a Bible believer, a real and true Bible believer, then you need to believe the whole Book. Believe the whole Bible. Not just certain parts of it which you like and agree with.

We have a Bible Versions forum down there. If you want to make a positive, scriptural case that "certain parts" teach KJV-onlyism, and that case is persuasive, then I'll agree with it. So go nuts.

Every word of God s pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Not, I note for the record, "every word of God in the KJV exclusively."

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6 (KJV)

Not, I note for the record, "Add thou not to his words as exclusively recorded in the KJV."

Oh and another thing, a true Bible believer only has one Authority.

And who says that one authority is the KJV exclusively? Do you want to make a case from the Bible for that? You know where the Bible forum is.

 

[Ransom]

...and James White!!!!!
!!!

!!!!!!!

Did I mention "!"?

Did I mention James White? Funny how Biblebeliever wants to drop names that I didn't, as though they form part of my arguments.

 

[Biblebeliever]

Who cares what authority they hold to, when they aren't competent to interpret it for the rest of us?

We are to let the Bible interpret itself. It is called comparing Scripture with Scripture. It is also important to rightly divide the word of truth.

I'll believe it when you prove it. We have a Bible Version forum down there. If you want to make a positive, scriptural case for exclusively "believing" the KJV, then go at it.  Until you do, all we have is "Biblebeliever says so." Which doesn't carry an ounce of weight with me.

I believe the KJV because of the spiritual fruit that it has produced. Also there are Numerical codes and patterns found in the text of the Authorized Version. These codes also show that the hand of God has been on and is still on the King James Bible. It is a supernatural Book.

The Scriptures didn't exist as "one Book" until 3 centuries after they were written. We have a Bible version forum down there.  If you want to make a positive, scriptural case that "God wrote one Book," have at it.

God only authored one Book. He is not the author of confusion.

Also, consider the following Scripture:

16 Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. - Isaiah 34:16 (KJV)

Never said I didn't believe that.

Okay. And which Bible is perfect and without error? Which Bible do you believe is the perfect and inerrant word of God?

We have a Bible Versions forum down there. If you want to make a positive, scriptural case that "certain parts" teach KJV-onlyism, and that case is persuasive, then I'll agree with it. So go nuts.

Okay, and where in the Scriptures do you ever see anyone using multiple, conflicting and contradicting bible translations?

Not, I note for the record, "every word of God in the KJV exclusively."

Well if they are not in the Authorized Version, then where are they Scott? Which Bible?

Not, I note for the record, "Add thou not to his words as exclusively recorded in the KJV."

Again Scott, if God's pure words are not in the Authorized King James Bible, then where are they?

And who says that one authority is the KJV exclusively? Do you want to make a case from the Bible for that? You know where the Bible forum is.

One Bible has to be the authority because if you have two or three authorities, then that automatically makes you the Final Authority. Scott, why do you think that the Roman Catholic church puts "Sacred Tradition" on equal par with Holy Scripture?

Because they know that makes the Pope the Final Authority. That's why. If there are two or three authorities, that makes you an arbitrator. You become the judge over those two or three authorities.

If we don't have a perfect Standard, a perfect Bible, then we are in trouble because it is king of the hill. It is back to the jungle, every man does what is right in his own eyes. And man becomes his own final authority. Man's feelings and preferences become the standard for truth.

Thankfully though, we do have a perfect Bible. We do have a perfect, absolute standard. And it is the Authorized King James Holy Bible. The King James Bible is what brought true religious freedom. It is the very Book that made America and England great. But ever since America and England turned their back on God and His holy word, both countries have went downhill morally and spiritually.

 

[Castor Muscular]

"Authorized version".  LOL

I'm LCVO (LOL Cat Version Only).  It corrects the Greek, Hebrew, and KJV, and is the only version to be authorized by God himself in the 21st century.  Some people argue that it can't be authorized because it frequently changes.  But that is a myth.  It never changes.  It only appears to change if you're an unbeliever. 

 

[bgwilkinson]

I get dizzy watching the KJVO merry-go-round, it's such a fun amusement as we circle around chasing our tails.

 

[Castor Muscular]

If we don't have a perfect Standard, a perfect Bible, then we are in trouble because it is king of the hill. It is back to the jungle, every man does what is right in his own eyes. And man becomes his own final authority. Man's feelings and preferences become the standard for truth.

Let's see... if an exclusive devotion to a particular version is what protects America from spiritual decline, then how in the world could its most prolific advocates...

... be divorced twice and believe that abortion is not a sin (Ruckman)
... be divorced twice (Riplinger)
... be against church membership (A good number of KJV advocates on this and fff.com forum)

The problem is not related to the particular version one uses. The problem is related to their devotion to Christ.

Those who are exclusivelt devoted to ANY object, besides Christ, are already in spiritual decline.

Preach it, brotha!

 

[bgwilkinson]

If we don't have a perfect Standard, a perfect Bible, then we are in trouble because it is king of the hill. It is back to the jungle, every man does what is right in his own eyes. And man becomes his own final authority. Man's feelings and preferences become the standard for truth.

Let's see... if an exclusive devotion to a particular version is what protects America from spiritual decline, then how in the world could its most prolific advocates...

... be divorced twice and believe that abortion is not a sin (Ruckman)
... be divorced twice (Riplinger)
... be against church membership (A good number of KJV advocates on this and fff.com forum)

The problem is not related to the particular version one uses. The problem is related to their devotion to Christ.

Those who are exclusively devoted to ANY object, besides Christ, are already in spiritual decline.

Riplinger and Ruckman are perfect examples of how a misplaced devotion creates a spiritually empty cadavar.

That about sums up all of KJVO.

Idol worship.

Wish I had thought of that.

 

[Castor Muscular]

If we don't have a perfect Standard, a perfect Bible, then we are in trouble because it is king of the hill. It is back to the jungle, every man does what is right in his own eyes. And man becomes his own final authority. Man's feelings and preferences become the standard for truth.

Let's see... if an exclusive devotion to a particular version is what protects America from spiritual decline, then how in the world could its most prolific advocates...

... be divorced twice and believe that abortion is not a sin (Ruckman)
... be divorced twice (Riplinger)
... be against church membership (A good number of KJV advocates on this and fff.com forum)

The problem is not related to the particular version one uses. The problem is related to their devotion to Christ.

Those who are exclusively devoted to ANY object, besides Christ, are already in spiritual decline.

Riplinger and Ruckman are perfect examples of how a misplaced devotion creates a spiritually empty cadavar.

That about sums up all of KJVO.

Idol worship.

Wish I had thought of that.

Plus, there is no rational argument for KJVO.  And it gets more and more irrational as they add on arguments like the KJV corrects the Greek, etc.  That's why I called it a mental disorder. 

EDIT:  There is one rational argument.  "I like the KJV so much, it's the only Bible I want to use."  Narrow-minded, but rational. 

 

[Biblebeliever]

Bible believer - Was Bill Grady really on that list?  He lost all credibility with me when I brought a recent convert (who was a black man) to a church where he was preaching and he started throwing racial slurs from the pulpit.
Is the last half of James 3 in these people's bible?  How about 2 Timothy 2:24?
I'm king James only, but people like this make me want to hide that.

Hello there Pastor Ryan, it troubles me to hear that about Brother Will Grady. As Will Grady is one of the men I really look up to for his stand for the King James Bible.

And what he did was very wrong. I am just at a loss for words. We as Bible believers can be prone just like others are prone, to fall into pride if we are not careful, and if we do not take heed (See 1 Cor. 10:12). We have to be very careful to always be willing to have a humble, gentle, and teachable spirit.

What brother Will Grady did that day should have merited him a rebuke. And rightfully so.

 

[rsc2a]

"Authorized version".  LOL

I'm LCVO (LOL Cat Version Only).  It corrects the Greek, Hebrew, and KJV, and is the only version to be authorized by God himself in the 21st century.  Some people argue that it can't be authorized because it frequently changes.  But that is a myth.  It never changes.  It only appears to change if you're an unbeliever.

Actually, the only True Bibleâ„¢ is the Cottonpatch version.

- You cannot trust the the KJV because it came from Egypt Britain which everyone knows is a bastion of liberalism and compromisers. The Cottonpatch version comes from the Southern United States, and everyone knows the United States is the new Israel and the South is the most Godly place of all.
- It's written in the language of God, Southern American English. We know it is the language of God because Bear Bryant spoke it has produced classics like Gone with the Wind and Forrest Gump. If you cannot speak Southern American English and, thereby, cannot understand the Cottonpatch bible, you should move to Alabama and learn how to speak the correct language for God-fearing people everywhere.
- It's better than the LOLCat bible because the LOLCat is a new fangled version. (The Cottonpatch is thousands of years old, but it is so superior that the old copies have all worn out.)
- It's better than the NIV because the NIV is clearly wrong in many places since it doesn't match the Cottonpatch, and everyone knows the Cottonpatch Bible is the correct version.

 

[bgwilkinson]

"Authorized version".  LOL

I'm LCVO (LOL Cat Version Only).  It corrects the Greek, Hebrew, and KJV, and is the only version to be authorized by God himself in the 21st century.  Some people argue that it can't be authorized because it frequently changes.  But that is a myth.  It never changes.  It only appears to change if you're an unbeliever.

Actually, the only True Bibleâ„¢ is the Cottonpatch version.

- You cannot trust the the KJV because it came from Egypt Britain which everyone knows is a bastion of liberalism and compromisers. The Cottonpatch version comes from the Southern United States, and everyone knows the United States is the new Israel and the South is the most Godly place of all.
- It's written in the language of God, Southern American English. We know it is the language of God because Bear Bryant spoke it has produced classics like Gone with the Wind and Forrest Gump. If you cannot speak Southern American English and, thereby, cannot understand the Cottonpatch bible, you should move to Alabama and learn how to speak the correct language for God-fearing people everywhere.
- It's better than the LOLCat bible because the LOLCat is a new fangled version. (The Cottonpatch is thousands of years old, but it is so superior that the old copies have all worn out.)
- It's better than the NIV because the NIV is clearly wrong in many places since it doesn't match the Cottonpatch, and everyone knows the Cottonpatch Bible is the correct version.

Well reasoned.

 

[Ransom]

I believe the KJV because of the spiritual fruit that it has produced.

The Holy Spirit produces fruit, not the Bible.

Also there are Numerical codes and patterns found in the text of the Authorized Version. These codes also show that the hand of God has been on and is still on the King James Bible. It is a supernatural Book.

Numerology is pagan superstition. Maybe if you read the Bible for what it was instead of looking for pagan superstition in it, you would have known not to love the world or have fellowship with Belial. Idolators have no place in the kingdom.

God only authored one Book.

You still only assume what you have yet to prove: that the KJV is that "one Book." Are you ever going to do that, or should I just accept your highly questionable say-so that it's true?

He is not the author of confusion.

I've never been confused by a multiplicity of translations.

Also, consider the following Scripture:

16 Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read:

Note it doesn't sayu "Seek ye out of the KJV exclusively." Why do you keep pretending that's what it means? Prove it, if you can.

Okay, and where in the Scriptures do you ever see anyone using multiple, conflicting and contradicting bible translations?

They actually spoke the languages God inspired the Scriptures in. Unless you're willing to learn Hebrew and Greek - and I never met a KJV-onlyist who wasn't too lazy to educate himself, nor full of handy excuses to remain in ignorance - your argument fails.

Well if they are not in the Authorized Version, then where are they Scott? Which Bible?

I'm under no obligation to provide a more convincing alternative to your superstition. KJV-onlyism is not the default position. You're the one claiming God specially approves of the KJV, so it's your job to demonstrate that God specially approves of the KJV. Do your own homework.

Of course you won't. I've never seen a KJV-onlyist who wasn't an intellectual sloth.

One Bible has to be the authority because if you have two or three authorities, then that automatically makes you the Final Authority.

You're the one claiming God wrote one Book, the KJV. Where did God say he wrote one Book, the KJV? All you're doing is changing the subject. Put up or shut up.

Scott, why do you think that the Roman Catholic church puts "Sacred Tradition" on equal par with Holy Scripture?

Changing the subject is nothing but avoidance. Where did God say he wrote one Book, the KJV?

Thankfully though, we do have a perfect Bible. We do have a perfect, absolute standard. And it is the Authorized King James Holy Bible.

Because Biblebeliever says so. No other reason. Therefore, no reason to believe it.

 

[Ransom]

Hello there Pastor Ryan, it troubles me to hear that about Brother Will Grady. As Will Grady is one of the men I really look up to for his stand for the King James Bible.

Put not your trust in clowns, for they are for laughing at, and thou wilt find thyself embarrassed for the sake of their clownishness.

 

[Biblebeliever]

The Holy Spirit produces fruit, not the Bible.

Yes the Holy Spirit does produce fruit. And the Holy Ghost is the Author of Holy Scripture.

Numerology is pagan superstition. Maybe if you read the Bible for what it was instead of looking for pagan superstition in it, you would have known not to love the world or have fellowship with Belial. Idolators have no place in the kingdom.

While I am aware that the occult out there has symbols and that they have certain numbers out there that represents their religion, such as the number 11. But we are not talking about occult numerology here.

I am talking about Bible Numerology. There are absolutely fascinating codes and numerical patterns all through the King James Holy Bible. You should check some of them out.

You still only assume what you have yet to prove: that the KJV is that "one Book." Are you ever going to do that, or should I just accept your highly questionable say-so that it's true?

Yes, we have that one Book. It is the Bible. The Authorized King James Bible. Just study the fruit of the King James Bible. It is the Bible that brought world wide revivals and the greatest missionary efforts. Plus, what Bible has lasted for 402 years like the King James Bible?

The King James Bible is the best selling Bible of all time. And that is an irrefutable fact.

I've never been confused by a multiplicity of translations.

Okay Scott, then next time you attend a Bible study, bring 10 different modern translations with you and have each person turn to Psalm 23 from each of those different translations and have each person read from Psalm 23 simultaneously. And see if you can understand what is being read.

Note it doesn't sayu "Seek ye out of the KJV exclusively." Why do you keep pretending that's what it means? Prove it, if you can.

Well then which book is it then?

They actually spoke the languages God inspired the Scriptures in. Unless you're willing to learn Hebrew and Greek - and I never met a KJV-onlyist who wasn't too lazy to educate himself, nor full of handy excuses to remain in ignorance - your argument fails.

27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. - 1 Corinthians 14:27 (KJV)

Old Testament in Hebrew, some parts in Aramaic, and the New testament in Greek. Notice the last part of verse 27, it says, let one interpret. (English).

I'm under no obligation to provide a more convincing alternative to your superstition. KJV-onlyism is not the default position. You're the one claiming God specially approves of the KJV, so it's your job to demonstrate that God specially approves of the KJV. Do your own homework.

Yes you are Scott. You said that you are a Bible believer. Okay, that's great. You also affirmed to me that you believe that the Bible (singular) is the perfect and inerrant word of God. So Scott, which Bible (singular) do you believe to be the inerrant and perfect word of God?

I know which one I believe to be the perfect word of God.

But I am asking which one do you believe?

You're the one claiming God wrote one Book, the KJV. Where did God say he wrote one Book, the KJV? All you're doing is changing the subject. Put up or shut up.

Well God did. Just like God wrote one Old Testament and one New Testament. He also wrote one Bible.

Changing the subject is nothing but avoidance. Where did God say he wrote one Book, the KJV?

16 Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.
- Isaiah 34:16 (KJV)


Notice the Scripture says the book (singular) of the LORD. God promised to preserve His words. Therefore we must have them. God keeps His promises and He keeps His word. Amen.

Because Biblebeliever says so. No other reason. Therefore, no reason to believe it.

Well I asked you a few times already Scott, which Bible do you believe is the perfect and inerrant word of God?

 

[bgwilkinson]

Biblebeliever said,

Yes, we have that one Book. It is the Bible. The Authorized King James Bible. Just study the fruit of the King James Bible. It is the Bible that brought world wide revivals and the greatest missionary efforts. Plus, what Bible has lasted for 402 years like the King James Bible?



Well how about the LXX? I think it qualifies as the greatest translation of all time. It was the LXX that the KJV translators and Miles Smith credited for preparing the world for Jesus coming.

Then there is the Latin Vulgate that was used by most Christians in the Western world for over 1,000 years.

I believe these two translations were used to further the work of the LORD far more than the KJV.
Maybe you could make the case that the KJV after 1650 but how about before that?


Biblebeliever said,

The King James Bible is the best selling Bible of all time. And that is an irrefutable fact.

You have not cited anything that proves that.  I do not believe it is true.

 

[Castor Muscular]

Biblebeliever said,

Yes, we have that one Book. It is the Bible. The Authorized King James Bible. Just study the fruit of the King James Bible. It is the Bible that brought world wide revivals and the greatest missionary efforts. Plus, what Bible has lasted for 402 years like the King James Bible?



Well how about the LXX? I think it qualifies as the greatest translation of all time. It was the LXX that the KJV translators and Miles Smith credited for preparing the world for Jesus coming.

Then there is the Latin Vulgate that was used by most Christians in the Western world for over 1,000 years.

I believe these two translations were used to further the work of the LORD far more than the KJV.
Maybe you could make the case that the KJV after 1650 but how about before that?


Biblebeliever said,

The King James Bible is the best selling Bible of all time. And that is an irrefutable fact.

You have not cited anything that proves that.  I do not believe it is true.

http://blindbeggar.org/?p=1777

The Christian Booksellers Association has just published its list of best selling bible translations. Here are the lists for 2011, but keep in mind that the ranking is based only on sales in U.S. Christian retail stores.

2011 - Based on Dollar Sales

New International Version
King James Version
New King James Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Holman Christian Standard Bible
New International Readers Version
The Message
New American Standard Bible
New Revised Standard Version


2011 - Based on Unit Sales

New International Version
King James Version
New King James Version
New Living Translation
English Standard Version
Holman Christian Standard Bible
New International Readers Version
The Message
New American Standard Bible
Common English Bible

He did say "of all time", though.  Perhaps because it was the most popular before the NIV came out, that might be closer to the truth. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

2012 – Based on Dollar Sales

1. New International Version
2. King James Version
3. New Living Translation
4. New King James Version
5. English Standard Version
6. Holman Christian Standard Bible
7. New American Standard Bible
8. Common English Bible
9. Reina Valera 1960
10. The Message

2012 – Based on Unit Sales

1. New Living Translation
2. New International Version
3. King James Version
4. New King James Version
5. English Standard Version
6. Common English Bible
7. Holman Christian Standard Bible
8. New American Standard Bible
9. Reina Valera 1960
10. New International Readers Version


Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/top-10-bible-translations-in-the-united-states-92219/#1jDfsqIE1IFhctGt.99

 

[Recovering IFB]

Is Biblebeliever Deacon Dixon from the old FF?

 

[Castor Muscular]

Is Biblebeliever Deacon Dixon from the old FF?

I don't know.  Somebody ask him if he witnesses at nudist colonies.