Drinking

[Bruh]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member. 

When I say family member I do not mean a aunt or uncle or cousin because, it can be very easy to dismiss when they are even that close. 

What I mean when I say family member, I mean, Mother or Father or Sister or Brother.  You see when it is THAT CLOSE it will make all the difference. 

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?
  That sure is a big gamble to take on your children.  IMHO

I have seen alcohol destroy family members to the point that I despise alcohol.  And you better believe that I tell my children the stories of their uncles and how they have to sit in jail and their children will not have a daddy for a year or so...And you better believe that I tell them that if they wouldn't of had the first sip they would not be in jail. 

I also teach them that we are not better than them because that could be us as well. 

I have learned that experience WILL change a persons view on most anything. 

 

   

 

[Bruh]

I have learned that experience WILL change a persons view on most anything.

Again... experience does not trump Scripture. Other people's abuses should not impact my liberty to enjoy God's gifts in my own context.

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?
  That sure is a big gamble to take on your children.  IMHO

 

[Bruh]

I have learned that experience WILL change a persons view on most anything.

Again... experience does not trump Scripture. Other people's abuses should not impact my liberty to enjoy God's gifts in my own context.

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?
  That sure is a big gamble to take on your children.  IMHO

What, no comment? 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member. 

It's not for lack of trying, at least on my part.  I put a bottle of whiskey on the table and told it to destroy a family member.  So far, nothing. 

 

[FSSL]

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?
  That sure is a big gamble to take on your children.  IMHO

How do I know my children will not drink in moderation? How do I know they will not get drunk? Who knows? There is no guarantee for anyone.

This fear does not exempt us from understanding the Bible's teaching on the subject.

 

[Biker]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member. 

It's not for lack of trying, at least on my part.  I put a bottle of whiskey on the table and told it to destroy a family member.  So far, nothing.

Maybe from it's angle..it's gaze has focused directly on your Liver.

 

[FSSL]

...you will get no argument from me on that one..... the problem begins when you say that because alcohol is a gift from God christians are either commanded to drink it or missing out on a blessing from God if they don;t........

This is where the disconnect comes... The abstainer thinks we are compelling them to drink. Not one of us (afaik) has commanded it. Can you link us to that?

I DID say that God gave us wine and alcohol as a gift. It is a gift, not to be abused.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member. 

It's not for lack of trying, at least on my part.  I put a bottle of whiskey on the table and told it to destroy a family member.  So far, nothing.

Maybe from it's angle..it's gaze has focused directly on your Liver.

Maybe.  But so far it hasn't attacked my liver.  It's just sitting on the table, doing nothing.  Sort of like an inanimate object. 

 

[FSSL]

in other words.... you have no idea whether anyone in the new testament ever put deuteronomy 14-26 into practice.... and more specifically ...you don;t know whether our own Lord and Savior or His disciples ever did either....

The reason we supply these passages is to establish the fact that THROUGHOUT the Scriptures, God has consistently spoken of wine and strong drink as His gifts. We also recognize the fact that God warns against the abuse of the same gifts.

About Deuteronomy and the extent of the tithe festival. I know that it amalgamated into the Jubilees that became an annual event. Various tithe festivals are found all the way up until 100 BC.

Did Jesus ever participate in these festivals? Interesting question. Being that He was a Hebrew and that He was involved in Jewish festivals and customs, there is no reason we should doubt it.

He DID participate at the wedding feast in Cana and HE supplied the wine.

...... but you want to continue supporting your buddies here who have thrown that scripture into the mix... and claimed it;s a commandment for modern christians to follow....  : ......  so ....you point to what you think your friends will agree is a red herring .. and you pretend you don;t understand a position i stated quite clearly..... ... ok... : .......... i get it... ........ please do carry on.......

I remember... I did say that Paul commanded the Christians to drink wine for communion. So, "yes," I do remember that.

 

[FSSL]

was all that just a typo?....."paul now commands us all to drink wine as a remembrance"?........ or os this another one of those reformed doctrine things where all doesn;t really mean all?.........

Sorry. Simultaneous posting. See my above post.

 

[Ransom]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member. 

Sounds an awful lot what the current advocates for same-sex marriage in churches are saying: that those who oppose it have had no experience with, say, family members coming out.

Experience with family members doesn't trump Scripture in the latter example, and it doesn't in the former.

 

[Ransom]

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?

So it turns out that in the fundy hierarchy of values, "Thus saith the Lord" is trumped by "Won't someone please think of the children and the innocent little babies and the cute little puppies and the bunny rabbits?"

 

[Ransom]

It's not for lack of trying, at least on my part.  I put a bottle of whiskey on the table and told it to destroy a family member.  So far, nothing.

You're doing it wrong. It's SUVs that go on murderous rampages and kill children.

 

[Ransom]

The abstainer thinks we are compelling them to drink.

It's because they're projecting. Their own preferences - and, perhaps, their weaknesses - determine the law for everyone else.

 

[FSSL]

A classic worth resharing

 

[FSSL]

Thanks aleshanee... this is a great subject. Hopefully the discussion can remain profitable.

 

[rsc2a]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member...

...I have seen alcohol destroy family members to the point that I despise alcohol.  And you better believe that I tell my children the stories of their uncles and how they have to sit in jail and their children will not have a daddy for a year or so...And you better believe that I tell them that if they wouldn't of had the first sip they would not be in jail. 

I also teach them that we are not better than them because that could be us as well. 

I have learned that experience WILL change a persons view on most anything.

So you've got a brother in jail "because of alcohol" and so that personal anecdote is supposed to convince others?

I buried my 16-yr old brother after he burned alive when he was rear-ended by a drunk who was free after getting charged with two previous DUIs. At the time, I was a reasonably hard-core tee-totaller to the point that I was serving as a youth counselor for anti-drug/alcohol/tobacco retreats for church kids. Since then, I've come to see what Scripture actually teaches about alcohol (along with a host of other things).

So I guess my experience changed my views towards alcohol...I'm fine with it in moderation where once I wasn't. But, I guess my experience of burying a sibling who had been burned alive isn't as serious yours was, so that must be why I changed my views from the extra-Biblical ones you still hold.

Funny thing about the freedom we have in Christ as believers...so many of our spiritual kin are attracted to chains.

 

[Bruh]

One would have to assume that admin, has never had first hand experience when it comes to alcohol destroying a family member...

...I have seen alcohol destroy family members to the point that I despise alcohol.  And you better believe that I tell my children the stories of their uncles and how they have to sit in jail and their children will not have a daddy for a year or so...And you better believe that I tell them that if they wouldn't of had the first sip they would not be in jail. 

I also teach them that we are not better than them because that could be us as well. 

I have learned that experience WILL change a persons view on most anything.

So you've got a brother in jail "because of alcohol" and so that personal anecdote is supposed to convince others?

I buried my 16-yr old brother after he burned alive when he was rear-ended by a drunk who was free after getting charged with two previous DUIs. At the time, I was a reasonably hard-core tee-totaller to the point that I was serving as a youth counselor for anti-drug/alcohol/tobacco retreats for church kids. Since then, I've come to see what Scripture actually teaches about alcohol (along with a host of other things).

So I guess my experience changed my views towards alcohol...I'm fine with it in moderation where once I wasn't. But, I guess my experience of burying a sibling who had been burned alive isn't as serious yours was, so that must be why I changed my views from the extra-Biblical ones you still hold.

Funny thing about the freedom we have in Christ as believers...so many of our spiritual kin are attracted to chains.

Well, I guess experience is experienced in different ways.  People are different.   

My experience teaches me, that nothing good comes from drinking alcohol.   

 

[Bruh]

You see admin you may be able to drink in moderation but how do you know that your precious children will have that same will, as there daddy?
  That sure is a big gamble to take on your children.  IMHO

How do I know my children will not drink in moderation? How do I know they will not get drunk? Who knows? There is no guarantee for anyone.

This fear does not exempt us from understanding the Bible's teaching on the subject.

You as their father putting your stamp of approval, is a big gamble my friend.  IMHO

 

[Bruh]

What, no comment?

I am out drinking with my children. I will elaborate when I get back to my
computer

My Mother always says that, we are usually humbled by our children as they get older and have children of their own.  She says, it always hurts more to see your children hurt. 

You may eat those words one day. I would be careful not to be so proud my friend.