Drove by the ol compound

[Just me]

I found out about it on one of the early trips out to the property for a church bbq.  Back when the only way into the property was the "trail" they made from the north side long before they started building anything out there.  I really do not know if it was common knowledge or not.  I might have overheard something I was not supposed to!!  lol

I believe that I attended one of those early bbq's as well, but don't remember them saying anything about it either.

They gave tours around the property on the green 4 wheeler thingie.  When we got to the edge that went over to that part of the land I was told about its plan by whoever was driving me around.  Can't remember who. 

I attended them all so we probably know each other!!  lucky us

 

[TruthInLove]

I found out about it on one of the early trips out to the property for a church bbq.  Back when the only way into the property was the "trail" they made from the north side long before they started building anything out there.  I really do not know if it was common knowledge or not.  I might have overheard something I was not supposed to!!  lol

I believe that I attended one of those early bbq's as well, but don't remember them saying anything about it either.

They gave tours around the property on the green 4 wheeler thingie.  When we got to the edge that went over to that part of the land I was told about its plan by whoever was driving me around.  Can't remember who. 

I attended them all so we probably know each other!!  lucky us

I believe that vehicle was nicknamed "the green beast" and I don't remember if I went on one of those tours.

You are probably correct. It's likely that we do know each other. This is one instance where we both can say that life is actually greener on the other side. 

 

[Just me]

I believe that vehicle was nicknamed "the green beast" and I don't remember if I went on one of those tours.

You are probably correct. It's likely that we do know each other. This is one instance where we both can say that life is actually greener on the other side. 

Not only greener but extremely lush and beautiful and fun to run around on in bare feet!!

 

[TruthBearer]

So a year from now will Vineyards Concentration Camp still stand?

I actually think it will. A lot of people like small church's, they will get new members after all this settles down and be a shadow of what they used to be.

Beyond that I think bankruptcy is in their future, with no school students in WHBS and no college students in OBC to help fund the church.

If the church is in as much debt as we are lead to believe, would it not make sense to sell the camp ground property and free up some extra cash flow? Or maybe even apply that toward the mountain of debt?

Then again, it would seem that the leadership does not always make the common sense decision.

That may be something they will do, sell the camp to pay off some of the debt to save the church. There only other option is to get more members and/or get the current members to increase their revenue.

 

[Just me]

I always wondered how JV was not taking a salary to help the churches finances and then turns around and buys a $250,000 home, sounds like someone was skimming the funds.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=12878+magnolia+dr+piedmont,+ok+73078&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x87b2005e0cf7e835:0xa867c01fef56d85a,12878+Magnolia+Dr,+Piedmont,+OK+73078&gl=us&ei=mC2qU_bWBsupyAS4wYGYBw&ved=0CBUQ8gEoATAA

 

[TruthBearer]

I always wondered how JV was not taking a salary to help the churches finances and then turns around and buys a $250,000 home, sounds like someone was skimming the funds.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=12878+magnolia+dr+piedmont,+ok+73078&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x87b2005e0cf7e835:0xa867c01fef56d85a,12878+Magnolia+Dr,+Piedmont,+OK+73078&gl=us&ei=mC2qU_bWBsupyAS4wYGYBw&ved=0CBUQ8gEoATAA

I wonder if the $60,000 motor home is his and funded by the church also.

 

[Just me]

I always wondered how JV was not taking a salary to help the churches finances and then turns around and buys a $250,000 home, sounds like someone was skimming the funds.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&gbv=2&q=12878+magnolia+dr+piedmont,+ok+73078&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x87b2005e0cf7e835:0xa867c01fef56d85a,12878+Magnolia+Dr,+Piedmont,+OK+73078&gl=us&ei=mC2qU_bWBsupyAS4wYGYBw&ved=0CBUQ8gEoATAA

I wonder if the $60,000 motor home is his and funded by the church also.

Yes and yes but bought and paid for long ago.  Many a teenage boy suffered through Summer fishing trips in that thing.  And come to think of it many an OBC preacher boy also went through torture on a Monday/Tuesday "preaching" trip in that thing also.

 

[Walt]

The Confederate flag is not racist. Read the history about the flag. Also read how many Northerner's had slaves. The Southerner's were not the only people that had slaves. Why would they fight the Southerners for doing the same thing they were doing?  The civil war was more about states rights then the revisionist history claims it was all about slavery.

The "it was about states' rights" IS the revisionist history.  If you look at the diaries and writings BEFORE the war and DURING the war, it WAS about slaves.

Not commenting on the flag issue because I don't know.

Certainly the Northerners had slaves; however, it was the Southern economy that was dependent upon slave labor; writings at the time show that the South feared that the North was going to ruin their economy.  The big issue was about power and control -- specifically of Congress - neither the South (generally pro-slavery) nor the North (mixed anti-slavery & lets-not-expand slavery) wanted one side or the other to gain control of Congress.  By banning slavery in territories becoming states, the South feared that it was just a matter of time before "the loonies" (abolitionists) rammed a bill through banning slavery.

The revisionism that "it was all about states' right" started shortly after the war, alongside of the exaltation of Robert E Lee. I normally see these two together.

I don't expect to convince you, but I have done lots of reading and studying about those times, including a lecture series on the civil war.

 

[TruthBearer]

The Confederate flag is not racist. Read the history about the flag. Also read how many Northerner's had slaves. The Southerner's were not the only people that had slaves. Why would they fight the Southerners for doing the same thing they were doing?  The civil war was more about states rights then the revisionist history claims it was all about slavery.

The "it was about states' rights" IS the revisionist history.  If you look at the diaries and writings BEFORE the war and DURING the war, it WAS about slaves.

Not commenting on the flag issue because I don't know.

Certainly the Northerners had slaves; however, it was the Southern economy that was dependent upon slave labor; writings at the time show that the South feared that the North was going to ruin their economy.  The big issue was about power and control -- specifically of Congress - neither the South (generally pro-slavery) nor the North (mixed anti-slavery & lets-not-expand slavery) wanted one side or the other to gain control of Congress.  By banning slavery in territories becoming states, the South feared that it was just a matter of time before "the loonies" (abolitionists) rammed a bill through banning slavery.

The revisionism that "it was all about states' right" started shortly after the war, alongside of the exaltation of Robert E Lee. I normally see these two together.

I don't expect to convince you, but I have done lots of reading and studying about those times, including a lecture series on the civil war.

South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas all had split from the Union and created the Confederate states becasue they did not support the Union in regards to slavery. They wanted to be able to do as their states desired and not follow the direction of the Union.  This separation from the Union was based on States rights to do what they wanted and not play along with the Union which was going a different direction.

This is not revisionist history. Slavery was a key point but the real issue was states rights.

 

[TheAlvinChimpmunk]

Former OBC preacher boy Joel McCarty ranted on white supremacy and said the rebel flag was racist. Now he's a soy boy megachurch pastor who worships Black Lives Matter and campaigned for Joe Biden and says he tears up when athletes kneel for the anthem and that the NBA wants to burn American flags.

Caleb Garraway on the other hand is a Godly young man who's making his up the ranks as one of IFB's top evangelists. He's pulling America while McCarty is an anti-American Beta Male who worships criminals like George Floyd.