Fallen Pastors

Baptist Renegade said:
Pretty much a "Single Pastor Rule." Some have referred to this as the "Moses Model." According to my understanding, there is a "Board of Trustees" who handles the business side of things but the Pastor is the "Man in Charge."
Click to expand...
Pretty much.

Oftentimes the "Board of Trustees" is comprised of lay leaders such as elders and other pastors within the region. The main benefit of having board members who aren't "members" of a particular congregation is they cannot be "controlled" by the "man in charge". The "Moses Model" does establish the pastor as being in charge but he is definitely not at will to rule with an iron fist. He is accountable to others. He will be brought into account if he abuses his power.

I personally don't have any problems with this model of leadership as I have seen it work well. My current pastor has proven himself to be above reproach, therefore, I support him even in matters I don't personally agree with. I've seen many good men pastor their congregation for many years. I've also seen some fail and be removed from office.
 
AverageJoe said:
I forgot about this site. I should have given it to our SS teacher, though I don't believe he would have used it. He's going to follow the church's recommendation of using the watered-down junk from Lifeway. UGH!
Click to expand...
Thanks! The most dowloads are early Sunday :)
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Pretty much a "Single Pastor Rule." Some have referred to this as the "Moses Model." According to my understanding, there is a "Board of Trustees" who handles the business side of things but the Pastor is the "Man in Charge."
Click to expand...
Sounds like the church I grew up in in Illinois! UGH! Hate those kinds of places and refuse to go to another one.
 
Bob Jones V said:
What is their polity?
Click to expand...
The Senior Pastor
abcaines said:
Pretty much.

Oftentimes the "Board of Trustees" is comprised of lay leaders such as elders and other pastors within the region. The main benefit of having board members who aren't "members" of a particular congregation is they cannot be "controlled" by the "man in charge". The "Moses Model" does establish the pastor as being in charge but he is definitely not at will to rule with an iron fist. He is accountable to others. He will be brought into account if he abuses his power.

I personally don't have any problems with this model of leadership as I have seen it work well. My current pastor has proven himself to be above reproach, therefore, I support him even in matters I don't personally agree with. I've seen many good men pastor their congregation for many years. I've also seen some fail and be removed from office.
Click to expand...
Pretty much every CC Pastor I have known seems to be a great guy with a heart for God and for those entrusted to his care but I still wouldn't want to establish my membership there. I spent some time with one here in the Houston area but the membership was quite cliquish and stand-off-ish towards me and my wife so we took it as being not where God wanted us to be.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
but I still wouldn't want to establish my membership there.
Click to expand...
No worries. CCs don't maintain membership rosters.


Baptist Renegade said:
I spent some time with one here in the Houston area but the membership was quite cliquish and stand-off-ish towards me and my wife
Click to expand...
I've seen that at Baptist church as well.

You've probably heard this before but when I first started with CC, I was looking to get back to my fundamentalist roots. I was very surprised to find CC to be more fundamentalist than the MacArthur-esque Baptist church I had attended for a dozen years.

You've made it very clear what you're looking for in a church and it's valid. More power to ya.
 
Last edited:
Baptist Renegade said:
The Senior Pastor

Pretty much every CC Pastor I have known seems to be a great guy with a heart for God and for those entrusted to his care but I still wouldn't want to establish my membership there. I spent some time with one here in the Houston area but the membership was quite cliquish and stand-off-ish towards me and my wife so we took it as being not where God wanted us to be.
Click to expand...
We have experienced the same...that's why we're SBC, though we're getting ready to leave the SBC. We're just not satisfied with the way the SBC is headed. Though they voted to keep men only as pastors, there's still a definite slide towards the egalitarian viewpoint.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
I am guessing there are a good number of them. They are likely faithful members of their Church and selling Real Estate or something. They may teach a Sunday School class and encourage their pastor/elders and otherwise keep a low profile and you never hear from them.

There is one I know of personally, an Evangelist who headed a large prison ministry, I really looked up to him and considered working with him after I left the Navy. I was quite saddened to hear of his "fall from grace." My understanding is he was never "caught" but confessed a "single act of indiscretion," repented, and left the ministry. His FB page mentions nothing of ministry, only that he is selling real estate.
Click to expand...
Or you get someone like David Hyles, running a restoration ministry. Not sure what authority he has to "restore" fallen pastors as I thought that was up to their church and/or ordination board, but he is there anyway. Maybe they get a "Restored Pastor" certificate signed by Davey boy.

Promoted by Bob Gray Sr as well.

Falleningrace.com
 
FundNoMore said:
Or you get someone like David Hyles, running a restoration ministry. Not sure what authority he has to "restore" fallen pastors as I thought that was up to their church and/or ordination board, but he is there anyway. Maybe they get a "Restored Pastor" certificate signed by Davey boy.

Promoted by Bob Gray Sr as well.

Falleningrace.com
Click to expand...
I know nothing of this ministry but I do believe we need to be careful how we use the word "Restore." To restore one to fellowship in the body of Christ is very much biblical and is something we are commanded to do. Whether one is "Restored" to ministry is dependent upon whether the fallen pastor can have those whose faith he has been betrayed "Restore" their trust in him once more. For someone who is a proven serial adulterer, this is a very tall order!

I would say one who is truly repentant would rejoice in the fact that they are forgiven and perhaps the congregation trusts them to mow the lawn or something!
 
Do you believe that a man who has committed adultery is permanently forbidden by Scripture from being an elder/bishop/pastor?
 
Looks like "fallen pastors" may be out of luck. There was some reporting in the past few years on how Church of the Highlands in Birmingham, Alabama was going to construct a retreat center for the restoration of fallen pastors.

"The Lodge, funded by the church’s Legacy donations, is a $4.5 million retreat center where pastors, leaders, and their families will be, according to an original pamphlet, 'mentored, counseled, refreshed, and restored.' The program is the vision of Highlands Senior Pastors Chris Hodges and Dino Rizzo. Both are co-founders of the Association of Related Churches (ARC).

"The project sparked concern over how Highlands and ARC reinstate morally-fallen pastors to the pulpit with seemingly minimal consequences. Some questioned whether the goal to extend forgiveness and redemption to fallen leaders would result in The Lodge becoming a 'safe place' to harbor and enable unrepentant sin. . . .

"The vision for restoration started when Hodges sought to restore Rizzo, who in 2012 admitted to an extramarital affair while serving as senior pastor of Healing Place Church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. . . .

"The most referred-to example is Micahn Carter. Carter relocated to preach at Highlands as part of his restoration process after being accused of rape by a staff member at Together Church in Washington State. After the lawsuit escalated, Carter resigned, and Highlands severed ties and affirmed they were 'no longer involved in the restoration process.'”

ministrywatch.com

Church of the Highlands Quietly Advances Controversial Pastoral Retreat Center – MinistryWatch

ministrywatch.com

But now Church of the Highlands says The Lodge will not be a retreat for fallen pastors after all. They appear to be backing off from previous statements:

"Vollers stressed in her report that Hodges revealed during a church leadership event in 2021 that he and Highlands Associate Pastor Dino Rizzo were 'in the middle of about 20 pastoral, moral failures or restorations right now' and expressed a desire to be known for restoring these pastors. . . .

"Rizzo, a member of the congregation’s senior leadership team, returned to public ministry in August 2013 at Church of the Highlands, just over a year after he resigned as senior pastor of the Healing Place Church in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, over an inappropriate affair with a woman who was not his wife. . . .

"Katelyn Beaty, an author and podcast host who previously served as managing editor at Christianity Today, stated in a tweet on Monday that she doesn’t believe pastors who have abused their positions should get a 'wellness retreat.'

“'A pastor who has abused their power over people doesn't need a wellness retreat. My concern is that this "pastoral recovery" center will be a place where unhealthy leaders cycle in and out, to check off a box in order to return to public ministry,' she wrote."

www.christianpost.com

Church of the Highlands dismisses suggestion it is running $4.5M retreat for fallen pastors

Church of the Highlands, Alabama s largest church, which is also ranked as the second largest congregation in the nation with some 60,000 reported attendees in 2022, has dismissed reports suggesting ...
www.christianpost.com www.christianpost.com

So if The Lodge at Grant's Mill is not going to be a restoration center for fallen pastors after all, they can still go to Dave Hyles for their "restored pastor" certificate, but I don't believe he is running a luxury retreat for them.
 
The Problem is, there is nothing in the Bible that talks about Restoration. It talks about Repentance, and forgiveness, and receiving one back into the church, but Restoration is a relatively new concept.
 
I checked out the Fallen In Grace web site referenced in post #47. It is a useful resource for understanding the warped mentality of advocates for restoration of fallen pastors. There are a lot of articles by Dave Hyles there, with a lot of weird stuff. In this article, he blames the people of Miller Road Baptist Church for the failure of his first marriage. He brags about how his dad Jack helped fallen pastors get back in the ministry, and how Jack brought hundreds of fallen people to FBC-Hammond. No wonder they had so many scandals there.

Should There Be a Difference in How We Handle a Fallen Pastor vs. a Church Member | Fallen In Grace

www.falleningrace.com www.falleningrace.com

In another article, Dave gripes about the bitterness of church members who have been betrayed by a fallen pastor and do not want to forgive and allow that pastor to be restored. He says that when congregations struggle after the moral fall of a pastor, it is mainly the fault of the bitter church members, not the pastor who fell.

12. Church Going Through a Pastor’s Fall | Fallen In Grace

www.falleningrace.com www.falleningrace.com

I would think that anyone who reads this stuff would want to avoid any churches that identify themselves with Dave's rants and that have this policy of restoring fallen pastors. But hey, that's just me.
 
Bob Jones V said:
The Problem is, there is nothing in the Bible that talks about Restoration. It talks about Repentance, and forgiveness, and receiving one back into the church, but Restoration is a relatively new concept.
Click to expand...

Well, there's something about restoration:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (Gal. 6:1)​

Except "restoration" means, as you say: restoration to fellowship. Repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. The Bible doesn't offer restoration to an office you forfeited because you proved yourself unqualified by violating the church's trust.
 
Ransom said:
Well, there's something about restoration:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (Gal. 6:1)​

Except "restoration" means, as you say: restoration to fellowship. Repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. The Bible doesn't offer restoration to an office you forfeited because you proved yourself unqualified by violating the church's trust.
Click to expand...
Good distinction.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
I know nothing of this ministry but I do believe we need to be careful how we use the word "Restore." To restore one to fellowship in the body of Christ is very much biblical and is something we are commanded to do. Whether one is "Restored" to ministry is dependent upon whether the fallen pastor can have those whose faith he has been betrayed "Restore" their trust in him once more. For someone who is a proven serial adulterer, this is a very tall order!

I would say one who is truly repentant would rejoice in the fact that they are forgiven and perhaps the congregation trusts them to mow the lawn or something!
Click to expand...
I wholeheartedly agree. Restore to fellowship, not leadership.
 
Ransom said:
Well, there's something about restoration:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (Gal. 6:1)​

Except "restoration" means, as you say: restoration to fellowship. Repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. The Bible doesn't offer restoration to an office you forfeited because you proved yourself unqualified by violating the church's trust.
Click to expand...
Other than friendship with his father, why would a dyed in the wool IFBer like Bob Gray support Dave and promote this on his Twitter page?
 
FundNoMore said:
Other than friendship with his father, why would a dyed in the wool IFBer like Bob Gray support Dave and promote this on his Twitter page?
Click to expand...
I can't think of any reason to be supporting Dave Hyles outside of blind loyalty to the Hyles cult of personality. The man shouldn't be let within 50 yards of a church unless he's sitting quietly at the back praying fervently for his own salvation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top