Fallen Pastors

IFB X-Files said:
Mt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Then this should empty most pulpits.
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There is a difference between adultery of the heart and adultery. Only one is reason for divorce.
 
AverageJoe said:
We have experienced the same...that's why we're SBC, though we're getting ready to leave the SBC. We're just not satisfied with the way the SBC is headed. Though they voted to keep men only as pastors, there's still a definite slide towards the egalitarian viewpoint.
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After being in the UMC for 10 years or so, returning to the SBC and to male preaching is so refreshing.
 
illinoisguy said:
I checked out the Fallen In Grace web site referenced in post #47. It is a useful resource for understanding the warped mentality of advocates for restoration of fallen pastors. There are a lot of articles by Dave Hyles there, with a lot of weird stuff. In this article, he blames the people of Miller Road Baptist Church for the failure of his first marriage. He brags about how his dad Jack helped fallen pastors get back in the ministry, and how Jack brought hundreds of fallen people to FBC-Hammond. No wonder they had so many scandals there.

Should There Be a Difference in How We Handle a Fallen Pastor vs. a Church Member | Fallen In Grace

www.falleningrace.com www.falleningrace.com

In another article, Dave gripes about the bitterness of church members who have been betrayed by a fallen pastor and do not want to forgive and allow that pastor to be restored. He says that when congregations struggle after the moral fall of a pastor, it is mainly the fault of the bitter church members, not the pastor who fell.

12. Church Going Through a Pastor’s Fall | Fallen In Grace

www.falleningrace.com www.falleningrace.com

I would think that anyone who reads this stuff would want to avoid any churches that identify themselves with Dave's rants and that have this policy of restoring fallen pastors. But hey, that's just me.
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Remember anything out of dh mouth is trash.... don't waste your time
 
Ransom said:
I can't think of any reason to be supporting Dave Hyles outside of blind loyalty to the Hyles cult of personality. The man shouldn't be let within 50 yards of a church unless he's sitting quietly at the back praying fervently for his own salvation.
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He and Jack Schaap are so far form who should be allowed in any pulpit, I'd say you would be in direct conflict with God if you put them there.
 
Bob Jones V said:
Do you believe that a man who has committed adultery is permanently forbidden by Scripture from being an elder/bishop/pastor?
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No...but, I believe his character will always be in question no matter how long he is away from the ministry to get himself together.
 
Agent P said:
After being in the UMC for 10 years or so, returning to the SBC and to male preaching is so refreshing.
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Our pastor preaches pretty well. I went to visit a cousin and his church has a female pastor....I sat there for about 10 minutes, but, I had to get up and leave...there were so many things wrong with her doctrine, and she misinterpreted scripture to fit her own ideology. I upset my cousin by leaving, but, after pointing out the problems, he started to realize that maybe he was wrong in his assessment of his own church.
 
FundNoMore said:
Other than friendship with his father, why would a dyed in the wool IFBer like Bob Gray support Dave and promote this on his Twitter page?
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they have written books together. I'm not a follower of either
 
IFB X-Files said:
Anyone know the current status of Dave Jaspers?
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I met Dave Jaspers in 2007, at which time he was serving as visitation pastor at Bethel Baptist Church in Schaumburg, Illinois. After that, he was the pastor of Ridgewood Baptist Church in Joliet, Illinois for some years.

www.facebook.com

Ridgewood Baptist Church

We thank God for Pastor Jaspers leading us in celebrating the church's 116th year anniversary. We give God the glory for their years of selfless service. We pray for God's grace to help the church...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com

In 2019 Ridgewood called a new pastor, so Jaspers must have retired at that time. His current whereabouts are not known to me.

Our Leadership - Ridgewood Baptist Church

Ridgewood LeadershipEquipping saints for the work of the ministry - Ephesians 4:11Clint VanDyne, Lead Pastor Pastor Clint VanDyne was saved at a young age in a small town in Indiana. He was privileged to grow up in a Christian home and attended Christian school in South Bend, Indiana. After...
ridgewoodbaptist.org
 
Ransom said:
Well, there's something about restoration:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (Gal. 6:1)​

Except "restoration" means, as you say: restoration to fellowship. Repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. The Bible doesn't offer restoration to an office you forfeited because you proved yourself unqualified by violating the church's trust.
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True. Why would someone who committed adultery want to jump back into leadership? I never understood this.
 
FSSL said:
True. Why would someone who committed adultery want to jump back into leadership? I never understood this.
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That is a good question. Maybe God gave them real, heart level repentance and they have cleaned up their life.
 
FSSL said:
True. Why would someone who committed adultery want to jump back into leadership? I never understood this.
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Nor have I, yet, there are many pastors in churches in our area that have done just that, from Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, and even Baptist, including my ex BIL who went from being an Independent, Fundamental Baptist to being a Southern Baptist just so he could feel comfortable getting back into the pulpit....the one I'm seeing this most often in is the Cowboy church
 
Bob Jones V said:
That is a good question. Maybe God gave them real, heart level repentance and they have cleaned up their life.
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If God truly restored and wanted them back in the ministry, perhaps it should be the congregation saying so? Perhaps it ought to be others around this former pastor who has observed his life, observed his family and determined that God's gifting and calling was once again upon his life? I would think that such would feel like they were being dragged back into the ministry kicking and screaming! In other words, it would be obvious to all that God was calling him back into the ministry (and yes, everyone knows of his past) and he was unable to run away from it!

Its kind of the way I feel should someone offer me a pastorate at this time in my life and having a divorce in my past. No, I have not been offered the position of Senior Pastor in any Church but I have had this conversation with my Pastor. I think he realizes I COULD find a Church if I really wanted to and I was trying to reassure him that I had no intention of going anywhere unless it was clear to all that the Lord was moving me somewhere else.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
If God truly restored and wanted them back in the ministry, perhaps it should be the congregation saying so? Perhaps it ought to be others around this former pastor who has observed his life, observed his family and determined that God's gifting and calling was once again upon his life? I would think that such would feel like they were being dragged back into the ministry kicking and screaming! In other words, it would be obvious to all that God was calling him back into the ministry (and yes, everyone knows of his past) and he was unable to run away from it!

Its kind of the way I feel should someone offer me a pastorate at this time in my life and having a divorce in my past. No, I have not been offered the position of Senior Pastor in any Church but I have had this conversation with my Pastor. I think he realizes I COULD find a Church if I really wanted to and I was trying to reassure him that I had no intention of going anywhere unless it was clear to all that the Lord was moving me somewhere else.
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I agree. I met with my mentor, who had pastored the same church for 33 years, of 4000 people, 2 weeks ago to see if I was able to return. First he said "I would endorse you using your gifts in public ministry. Then he said "Let people recognize your leadership. Don't try to insert yourself."
 
Ransom said:
Well, there's something about restoration:

Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. (Gal. 6:1)​

Except "restoration" means, as you say: restoration to fellowship. Repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation. The Bible doesn't offer restoration to an office you forfeited because you proved yourself unqualified by violating the church's trust.
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And that is all they are to be restored to, the family/church. NEVER position. It was the mishandled position that created the pride that fed the iniquity that led to the transgression. to do otherwise would be akin to making an alcoholic, a bartender and expecting sobriety.
 
TidesofTruth said:
And that is all they are to be restored to, the family/church. NEVER position. It was the mishandled position that created the pride that fed the iniquity that led to the transgression. to do otherwise would be akin to making an alcoholic, a bartender and expecting sobriety.
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Hate to say it, but, I wish my ex BIL would realize that...but, he was IFB...then after my sister divorced him he went back to being a Southern Baptist so he could preach. Shows just how some can change their stance to fit their needs instead of following the Bible and what they believed before.
 
AverageJoe said:
Hate to say it, but, I wish my ex BIL would realize that...but, he was IFB...then after my sister divorced him he went back to being a Southern Baptist so he could preach. Shows just how some can change their stance to fit their needs instead of following the Bible and what they believed before.
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Years ago I befriended a former SBC Pastor who had gone through a divorce. He resigned his pastorate and relinquished his ordination papers and was pretty much given the "Left Foot of Disfellowship" by whatever "Powers that Be" that was over him! He was highly educated with an MDiv and I asked him why he didn't use his degree to teach in Seminary or find some sort of staff position in a support ministry somewhere? I had recently came out of IFB and was in a non-denominational Bible Church so I had no experience with the SBC at the time. He told me that the SBC pretty much treated divorced pastors like they had leprosy or something! He got a second Masters Degree that got him a job in Social Services working with foster kids and families.

Now that I am SBC (simply due to the fact that I happen to be in an SBC Church), I understand that there are many different factions and flavors within the convention and many I personally would not touch with a 50-Foot Pole! The views regarding divorce and remarriage in the SBC are all over the board just as they are in the IFB world!

Your ex-BIL could have just as easily found an IFB congregation that would have accepted him as SBC! I know little of his personal character aside from some interactions I had with him at the "Model IFB Church" where he was a brand-new staff member. He seemed super nice but like many at this Church, he came across as a "Car Salesman" and was simply trying to get me to be in his new Sunday School class! I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he has learned a few things since then and is a better man for it?

I believe that a pulpit committee regardless of affiliation ought to have a high view of the "Husband of One Wife" stipulation in 1 Tim 3 but they should also carefully examine the exact meaning of the phrase and correctly apply it to whatever pastoral candidate they happen to be examining! Moral character and personal integrity are the main concerns! I would much rather sit under a seasoned veteran with some battle scars, is honest about his past, and has learned from his mistakes rather than some wet behind the ears kid no life experience aside from being a recent Bible College graduate with a newlywed bride and a baby on the way! Such is "Qualified" for the ministry simply for the fact that they have not yet had opportunity to screw up and make a mess of their life!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Years ago I befriended a former SBC Pastor who had gone through a divorce. He resigned his pastorate and relinquished his ordination papers and was pretty much given the "Left Foot of Disfellowship" by whatever "Powers that Be" that was over him! He was highly educated with an MDiv and I asked him why he didn't use his degree to teach in Seminary or find some sort of staff position in a support ministry somewhere? I had recently came out of IFB and was in a non-denominational Bible Church so I had no experience with the SBC at the time. He told me that the SBC pretty much treated divorced pastors like they had leprosy or something! He got a second Masters Degree that got him a job in Social Services working with foster kids and families.

Now that I am SBC (simply due to the fact that I happen to be in an SBC Church), I understand that there are many different factions and flavors within the convention and many I personally would not touch with a 50-Foot Pole! The views regarding divorce and remarriage in the SBC are all over the board just as they are in the IFB world!

Your ex-BIL could have just as easily found an IFB congregation that would have accepted him as SBC! I know little of his personal character aside from some interactions I had with him at the "Model IFB Church" where he was a brand-new staff member. He seemed super nice but like many at this Church, he came across as a "Car Salesman" and was simply trying to get me to be in his new Sunday School class! I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he has learned a few things since then and is a better man for it?

I believe that a pulpit committee regardless of affiliation ought to have a high view of the "Husband of One Wife" stipulation in 1 Tim 3 but they should also carefully examine the exact meaning of the phrase and correctly apply it to whatever pastoral candidate they happen to be examining! Moral character and personal integrity are the main concerns! I would much rather sit under a seasoned veteran with some battle scars, is honest about his past, and has learned from his mistakes rather than some wet behind the ears kid no life experience aside from being a recent Bible College graduate with a newlywed bride and a baby on the way! Such is "Qualified" for the ministry simply for the fact that they have not yet had opportunity to screw up and make a mess of their life!
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I agree to a point. My ex BIL was very abusive towards my sister, especially when she lost a set of twins back in the early 90s. He told her it was because of her sin. He also treated everyone in our whole family like crap, refusing to let his daughters get to know anyone in the family. He did his best to block them from knowing their grandparents, and often referred to my father by several different monikers that were unbecoming of a pastor, and also attacked my own character, and that of my wife because she came from the home of an alcoholic father. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the man....I never have, and I never will...but, he was a con artist of the first order.
 
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