Fundies get hung up on the stupidest things...

[OZZY]

There is neither Baptist nor Presbyterian, there is neither Methodist nor Pentecostal, there is no Catholic and Protestant, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

AMEN !!!! Some believe in Salvation by GRACE , others believe in a works salvation ! Yep no difference there! Christ paid it all for some and some He requires them to work for their salvation! Makes perfect sense rsc2a thanks for clearing that up!!!!!!!

 

[Castor Muscular]

There is neither Baptist nor Presbyterian, there is neither Methodist nor Pentecostal, there is no Catholic and Protestant, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

AMEN !!!! Some believe in Salvation by GRACE , others believe in a works salvation ! Yep no difference there! Christ paid it all for some and some He requires them to work for their salvation! Makes perfect sense rsc2a thanks for clearing that up!!!!!!!

Some Catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation.  They simply go to Catholic church out of tradition, family upbringing, friends, habit, social obligations.  It's meaningless, just like how some people dress up for church because they think that shows reverence for God.  It's a meaningless "work", too, but it doesn't mean they're not saved.

And, if you think about it carefully, the Catholic mass is not all that different from the traditional church service.

 

[rsc2a]

There is neither Baptist nor Presbyterian, there is neither Methodist nor Pentecostal, there is no Catholic and Protestant, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Yes that is true.

Don't make the mistake of eisigesis that rsc2a did with that verse.  The playing field is level for all types of people at the foot of the cross, with no preference being given to social, ethnic, or gender.  That doesn't mean that doctrine should be relegated to the least common denominator.  The same guy who wrote Galatians 3:28 also said that anyone who comes preaching another gospel ought to be accursed.  Doctrine divides, rightfully so in the event that the gospel is corrupted.

And those creeds that I said were essential to determining whether a church is orthodox enough for participation, this is where"your" church wouldn't pass muster.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints...

 

[Castor Muscular]

There is neither Baptist nor Presbyterian, there is neither Methodist nor Pentecostal, there is no Catholic and Protestant, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Yes that is true.

Don't make the mistake of eisigesis that rsc2a did with that verse.  The playing field is level for all types of people at the foot of the cross, with no preference being given to social, ethnic, or gender.  That doesn't mean that doctrine should be relegated to the least common denominator.  The same guy who wrote Galatians 3:28 also said that anyone who comes preaching another gospel ought to be accursed.  Doctrine divides, rightfully so in the event that the gospel is corrupted.

And those creeds that I said were essential to determining whether a church is orthodox enough for participation, this is where"your" church wouldn't pass muster.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints...

Good point.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Some Catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation.  They simply go to Catholic church out of tradition, family upbringing, friends, habit, social obligations.  It's meaningless, just like how some people dress up for church because they think that shows reverence for God.  It's a meaningless "work", too, but it doesn't mean they're not saved.

And, if you think about it carefully, the Catholic mass is not all that different from the traditional church service.

lol, one of the most asinine posts I've read in a long while on the FFF, and that's saying something.

And those creeds that I said were essential to determining whether a church is orthodox enough for participation, this is where"your" church wouldn't pass muster.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic Church,
    the communion of saints...

The way you butchered that Gal 3 verse, you'd feel real uncomfortable in a church like ours where the word is rightly divided and people are encouraged to be Berean-like in not accepting pablum like you just spewed.

 

[Castor Muscular]

lol, one of the most asinine posts I've read in a long while on the FFF, and that's saying something.

I assume you're referring to the dressing up out of reverence for God, which is what you do.  It's a work.  It's something you do to please God.  In the case of Aleshanee, it's not a work.  It's something she does because she simply enjoys dressing up.  She has no illusions about it being a God-pleasing work. 

As for Catholics, Mormons, I don't know why you would deny there are saved people in those churches.  After all, if I remember your numbers correctly, your church contains up to 25%-30% unsaved people.  What's the difference, except maybe proportion?  And I don't even know if the proportion is better or worse. 

If it's doctrine you're worried about, I guarantee your church teaches some incorrect doctrine.  Does that mean you're not saved? 

And it sounds like you don't believe your own creed -- that there is a Holy catholic church.  Does that mean you're not saved? 

 

[ALAYMAN]

lol, one of the most asinine posts I've read in a long while on the FFF, and that's saying something.

I assume you're referring to the dressing up out of reverence for God, which is what you do.  It's a work.  It's something you do to please God.  In the case of Aleshanee, it's not a work.  It's something she does because she simply enjoys dressing up.  She has no illusions about it being a God-pleasing work. 

So it is wrong to please God?  Ridiculous assertion, and absolutely antinomian to the core.  Ephesians 2:10, Heb 11:6, etc, etc, etc.

As for Catholics, Mormons, I don't know why you would deny there are saved people in those churches.  After all, if I remember your numbers correctly, your church contains up to 25%-30% unsaved people.  What's the difference, except maybe proportion?  And I don't even know if the proportion is better or worse. 

Where have I ever said that there aren't saved people in the Catholic church?  You're making wild unfounded leaps.  Because there are saved people in the Catholic church doesn't mean that they don't preach a defective gospel.

If it's doctrine you're worried about, I guarantee your church teaches some incorrect doctrine.  Does that mean you're not saved?

As Alistair Begg says, let the main things be the main things and the plain things be the plain things.  I don't major on the minors in terms of who I would worship with, but I am a Baptist by conviction, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.  Those aren't mere preferences.  And I won't be compelled against my conscience to yoke up with folk ecclesiastically that teach contrary to those (and other) essentials.

 

[PappaBear]

As for Catholics, Mormons, I don't know why you would deny there are saved people in those churches. 

Yep!  There goes a Calvinist.  Fine example.

 

[Castor Muscular]

So it is wrong to please God?  Ridiculous assertion, and absolutely antinomian to the core.  Ephesians 2:10, Heb 11:6, etc, etc, etc.

You can't please God by dressing up.  It's a meaningless work. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

So it is wrong to please God?  Ridiculous assertion, and absolutely antinomian to the core.  Ephesians 2:10, Heb 11:6, etc, etc, etc.

You can't please God by dressing up.  It's a meaningless work.

That's like saying that "you can't please God by wearing a head-covering, it's a meaningless work", or "you can't please God by gathering with fellow-believers, its' a meaningless work".  How do you arrive at the conclusion that you can determine whether somebody else's faith choices are "meaningless"?

 

[Castor Muscular]

As for Catholics, Mormons, I don't know why you would deny there are saved people in those churches. 

Yep!  There goes a Calvinist.  Fine example.

Yes, I'm a Calvinist, but what I expressed was not a Calvinist statement.  It's a statement that Jesus saves, not denominations. 

 

[Castor Muscular]

That's like saying that "you can't please God by wearing a head-covering

Well, in your case, covering your head with a paper bag might not please God, but it would sure as heck make the rest of the church happy. 

 

[ALAYMAN]

That's like saying that "you can't please God by wearing a head-covering

Well, in your case, covering your head with a paper bag might not please God, but it would sure as heck make the rest of the church happy. 

This is undoubtedly true, and your penchant for going for the joke everytime (at the expense of solid argumentation ) rears its head yet again.

 

[rsc2a]

[quote author=ALAYMAN]As Alistair Begg says, let the main things be the main things and the plain things be the plain things.[/quote]

Yes. Things like Jesus dying on the cross and being raised on the third day. Things like His deity. Things like His return. Things like forgiveness and communion. You know...creedal-type stuff.

[quote author=ALAYMAN]I don't major on the minors in terms of who I would worship with, but I am a Baptist by conviction, and salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.  Those aren't mere preferences.  And I won't be compelled against my conscience to yoke up with folk ecclesiastically that teach contrary to those (and other) essentials.[/quote]

Fabulous! Many, many Catholics (and Orthodox) folks I know would happily claim a belief in four of the five solas (with some clarifications), with the only exclusion being sola Scriptura. And, frankly, if many Protestants were more honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge they aren't as sola Scriptura as they think they are.

 

[Patebald]

Lay said:
That's like saying that "you can't please God by wearing a head-covering, it's a meaningless work", or "you can't please God by gathering with fellow-believers, its' a meaningless work".  How do you arrive at the conclusion that you can determine whether somebody else's faith choices are "meaningless"?

He didn't say their "faith choice" was meaningless. He said trying to please God by that choice is meaningless. Layman, I mean this with all my heart. I long for the day that a good guy like you can step away from the performance based religion that you've absorbed for so long and realize that your life as a follower of Christ has nothing to do with how many "good" things you can do to please God. The only thing that pleases Him is your faith. Once you've given Him that you can rest in His grace and mercy and patience without ever worrying again whether or not He is pleased with you or your actions.

 

[Patebald]

And, frankly, if many Protestants were more honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge they aren't as sola Scriptura as they think they are.

This was one of the biggest discoveries I've made in the last 5 years. Right on the money

 

[ALAYMAN]

Lay said:
That's like saying that "you can't please God by wearing a head-covering, it's a meaningless work", or "you can't please God by gathering with fellow-believers, its' a meaningless work".  How do you arrive at the conclusion that you can determine whether somebody else's faith choices are "meaningless"?

He didn't say their "faith choice" was meaningless. He said trying to please God by that choice is meaningless. Layman, I mean this with all my heart. I long for the day that a good guy like you can step away from the performance based religion that you've absorbed for so long and realize that your life as a follower of Christ has nothing to do with how many "good" things you can do to please God. The only thing that pleases Him is your faith. Once you've given Him that you can rest in His grace and mercy and patience without ever worrying again whether or not He is pleased with you or your actions.

I typed a long response to this, only to lose it when I hit "post".

Faith without works is dead.  You can't divorce faith from works (James 2:18). 

Your claim that I am trapped in performance-based Christianity is so far off base that I have a hard time accepting your perspective and judgment on anything.

 

[Izdaari]

And, frankly, if many Protestants were more honest with themselves, they'd acknowledge they aren't as sola Scriptura as they think they are.

This was one of the biggest discoveries I've made in the last 5 years. Right on the money

I only claim to be Prima Scriptura, i.e. Scripture is primary, the first and last authority but it is not all alone. Tradition, Reason and Experience also play a role, though those are secondary to Scripture. And I don't even claim to be Protestant, but Anglican, which is the via media between Catholicism and Protestantism.

 

[Patebald]

Faith without works is dead.  You can't divorce faith from works (James 2:18).

But that has nothing to do with the conversation of pleasing God by those works. No one said works aren't part of faith, we are saying that you don't please God by those works but rather the faith from which those works flow.

Your claim that I am trapped in performance-based Christianity is so far off base that I have a hard time accepting your perspective and judgment on anything.

Fair enough. Only you know. But I would be willing to bet that if your were to take 6 weeks and truly evaluate it you'd discover differently.

 

[PappaBear]

He didn't say their "faith choice" was meaningless. He said trying to please God by that choice is meaningless. Layman, I mean this with all my heart. I long for the day that a good guy like you can step away from the performance based religion that you've absorbed for so long and realize that your life as a follower of Christ has nothing to do with how many "good" things you can do to please God. The only thing that pleases Him is your faith. Once you've given Him that you can rest in His grace and mercy and patience without ever worrying again whether or not He is pleased with you or your actions.

In your travels to apostasy, have you totally tossed away the scriptures, not just the KJV, but the whole idea of scriptural authority?

Your statement above is what leads to antinomianism.  It rejects all works.  But if that be so, then why, pray tell us, is the Bible so filled with appellations to good works and pleasing God or acceptance with Him by godly living?  Why is Romans 1 & 2 & 3 so concentrated on the wrath of God revealed from heaven against the unrighteous works of men? 

2Cor 5:9  Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.