Hmmmm

Just me said:
Thanks for your words ItinerantPreacher but my suspicion only comes from what they police officer says Tom told them the day it happened versus what Tom said in his disposition.  On the day it happened the officer said that Tom told him he and his son were in the house when the alarm went off and the burglar came in and Tom shot him.  In the disposition Tom said that his family came home from shopping to the alarm going off.  He went inside to investigate and was jumped by the burglar and after a struggle Tom shot him.

Please tell me where the "wild conjecture" is in that.

I therefore question, based upon years of knowledge of Tom and the Vineyards, the rest of the story too.
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I was also wondering about this too. The story seemed to change from what was first told at the scene and later when Tommy Boy gave his disposition. I don't see how the two stories mesh together. Story 1 they were home and inside the house when the alarm went off, Story 2 they came home and found the guy in the closet with the alarm going off. If story 2 is correct why didn't the alarm company call and alert them of an alarm going off and notify the police? and if they did why wasn't this mentioned, it seems to be an important piece of the puzzle to not file charges.
 
AmazedbyGrace said:
It does not cost anything here to call the police to check out a possible burglar. Vineyard's carelessness could have turned out badly for him and his son too. What if there were multiple armed burglars? He did not have a clue what was waiting for him in that house. The police are better trained for such scenarios and would have covered both entrances (probably with a k-9 too) and ordered the burglar to come out of the house. Calling the police would have been safer for all sides. Vineyard handling the scenario himself upped the level of risk for all...and the 14 year old burglar died when he probably did not have to.
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If you have an alarm in OKC and the Police are called and it is a false alarm, (no break in) after the third one the city will not renew your permit and I think there is a $20 charge the third time in a year. That is what our alarm permit states on it.
 
TruthBearer said:
I was also wondering about this too. The story seemed to change from what was first told at the scene and later when Tommy Boy gave his disposition. I don't see how the two stories mesh together. Story 1 they were home and inside the house when the alarm went off, Story 2 they came home and found the guy in the closet with the alarm going off. If story 2 is correct why didn't the alarm company call and alert them of an alarm going off and notify the police? and if they did why wasn't this mentioned, it seems to be an important piece of the puzzle to not file charges.
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Makes me wonder if JAV still had some chips to cash in.  I thought he had used them up but maybe not?????
 
Something I find unusual about this whole thing is I have never heard anything from the parents of the 14 year old boy on any news channel. Has anyone else heard anything from the parents? It seems like if my 14 year old son was shot and killed I would have something to say and the media would be looking for me.
 
Just me said:
TruthBearer said:
I was also wondering about this too. The story seemed to change from what was first told at the scene and later when Tommy Boy gave his disposition. I don't see how the two stories mesh together. Story 1 they were home and inside the house when the alarm went off, Story 2 they came home and found the guy in the closet with the alarm going off. If story 2 is correct why didn't the alarm company call and alert them of an alarm going off and notify the police? and if they did why wasn't this mentioned, it seems to be an important piece of the puzzle to not file charges.
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Makes me wonder if JAV still had some chips to cash in.  I thought he had used them up but maybe not?????
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He did always stress the importance of Missionary's networking with the local law enforcement, mayors, etc. to have them on their side when needed to get out of a tight spot.

Deuteronomy 16:19
19 Thou shalt not wrest judgment; thou shalt not respect persons, neither take a gift: for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise, and pervert the words of the righteous.

Paying off the local DA with a free meal once a year will get you out of a lot of trouble.
 
TruthBearer said:
Just me said:
Thanks for your words ItinerantPreacher but my suspicion only comes from what they police officer says Tom told them the day it happened versus what Tom said in his disposition.  On the day it happened the officer said that Tom told him he and his son were in the house when the alarm went off and the burglar came in and Tom shot him.  In the disposition Tom said that his family came home from shopping to the alarm going off.  He went inside to investigate and was jumped by the burglar and after a struggle Tom shot him.

Please tell me where the "wild conjecture" is in that.

I therefore question, based upon years of knowledge of Tom and the Vineyards, the rest of the story too.
Click to expand...

I was also wondering about this too. The story seemed to change from what was first told at the scene and later when Tommy Boy gave his disposition. I don't see how the two stories mesh together. Story 1 they were home and inside the house when the alarm went off, Story 2 they came home and found the guy in the closet with the alarm going off. If story 2 is correct why didn't the alarm company call and alert them of an alarm going off and notify the police? and if they did why wasn't this mentioned, it seems to be an important piece of the puzzle to not file charges.
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So I don't have time to post al the links, but the news reports were all over the map. One did however state that the alarm company called Tom, and one stated that the alarm company notified the police.

I stated earlier that these new reports are unreliable, and in this case so all over the map that I start to call their credibility into question, so much so that I cannot draw a reasonable conclusion as to what happened.
 
So.....We are all just guessing here.  The only resource for information is the news, which is delivering what appears to be conflicting reports.

What makes sense:
Burglar breaks in to the house through a window, maybe a window that had an AC unit in it.  The alarm is triggered.  The alarm company does its job and notifies both homeowner and the police.  The police begin to make their way to the home. 

If TV is home, he confronts the burglar (Maybe a wrestling match?).  A shot is fired and the burglar dies.  The son calls the police.
If TV is NOT home - he beats the police to his home.  Personally, this sounds weird to me.  I don't know OKC at all, but I can't imagine the homeowner beats the police to the site.  Homeowner goes in to his own home.  Most of us would to see what is left and what was taken and if the dog is okay.  Maybe he went in with murderous intent, but most of us would not.  TV finds the burglar and and confronts him (Maybe a wrestling match?).  A shot is fired and the burglar dies.  The son calls the police.

It seems as though one report was unsure where the burglar died.  Maybe he ran out of the house and then collapsed (sign of gunfire during a struggle).

Apparently, the police are still investigating and not releasing much information.  The danger us posters and bloggers have is that we want an answer now - not when the investigation is done.
 
Binaca Chugger, I thinm you are spot on. I suspect he may have best the police to the house simlly because it sas a low priority. If memory serves the alarm was tripped at 3:15 (according go news reports) and the 911 call came at 3:30.

Remember, the alarm tripped, it wasn't a home imvasion with elderly hostages, it was an empty house in a high crime area. Likey lower on the polices priority list. I suspect Tom beat the police home, at some level surprised the intruder, in whatever happened, shot him. It is entirely possible the intruder wss shot inside but made it outside and died there as a result lf his injuries.

All that being said, I wasn't there and I am only conjecturing. With this little information I can't conclude anything
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
Binaca Chugger, I thinm you are spot on. I suspect he may have best the police to the house simlly because it sas a low priority. If memory serves the alarm was tripped at 3:15 (according go news reports) and the 911 call came at 3:30.

Remember, the alarm tripped, it wasn't a home imvasion with elderly hostages, it was an empty house in a high crime area. Likey lower on the polices priority list. I suspect Tom beat the police home, at some level surprised the intruder, in whatever happened, shot him. It is entirely possible the intruder wss shot inside but made it outside and died there as a result lf his injuries.

All that being said, I wasn't there and I am only conjecturing. With this little information I can't conclude anything
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You will not fit in on the fff if you don't conjecture something!
 
Binaca Chugger said:
  The danger us posters and bloggers have is that we want an answer now - not when the investigation is done.
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Will there be an investigation at all?  I got the impression that TV had been cleared. 
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
Binaca Chugger, I thinm you are spot on. I suspect he may have best the police to the house simlly because it sas a low priority. If memory serves the alarm was tripped at 3:15 (according go news reports) and the 911 call came at 3:30.

Remember, the alarm tripped, it wasn't a home imvasion with elderly hostages, it was an empty house in a high crime area. Likey lower on the polices priority list. I suspect Tom beat the police home, at some level surprised the intruder, in whatever happened, shot him. It is entirely possible the intruder wss shot inside but made it outside and died there as a result lf his injuries.

All that being said, I wasn't there and I am only conjecturing. With this little information I can't conclude anything
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I know other people that live within a half mile of Tom and when their alarm goes off the police have always showed up in under 5 minutes on several different occasions. I also know that the Hefner division of OKCPD can be very slow to respond at times, they seem to be inconvenienced when it is time to do their jobs, one officer in particular. That is not a slam against all police just my experience with the Hefner division in OKC.

Based off information we (the public) have been provided by news outlets too me it just seems Tom is big enough to wrestle a 14 year old boy to the ground and keep him there, especially with the help of his son since they were both there.

Nobody really knows what happened other than Tom. It does appear that he had the opportunity to exercise his legal right and defend his home against an intruder and I can support that. But at the same time I think more could have been done to spare the life of this young man even though he made a bad choice that day.

If someone really believes in a literal place called hell you would not be quick to send them there unless your life was in immediate danger by the individual, even if they got by with stealing some earthly possessions that can be replaced.

Exercising your legal rights and your moral rights are not the same thing. I have been personally threatened to be stabbed by a young man like this he is still alive today, I didn't exercise my legal right I chose to try and help the young man turn his life around before someone else did.
 
I personally think he used way more force then was necessary.  When he and his son went into that house he knew the police were on the way as his alarm company notified both him and the police also. Fact is the police respond quickly in this neighborhood.  He beat the police to his house but they were not far behind. 

I also personally feel he was very foolish in allowing his son to go into the house with him.  You do not put a family member in harms way like that!  But that just speaks to my opinion of the guy and his lack of a moral compass.

I also understand that he was within his legal right to defend himself, his family and his property thus no charges will be filed and the case is closed.
 
StephParker said:
Binaca Chugger said:
  The danger us posters and bloggers have is that we want an answer now - not when the investigation is done.
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Will there be an investigation at all?  I got the impression that TV had been cleared.
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I don't know what is meant by "cleared" but there was a statement that law enforcement would not be seeking any charges against TV.
 
Walt said:
StephParker said:
Binaca Chugger said:
  The danger us posters and bloggers have is that we want an answer now - not when the investigation is done.
Click to expand...
Will there be an investigation at all?  I got the impression that TV had been cleared.
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I don't know what is meant by "cleared" but there was a statement that law enforcement would not be seeking any charges against TV.
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The investigation is complete and no charges will be filed against him.
 
True no criminal charges will be filed but there is the possibility of a civil lawsuit IF the boy's parents decide they want to play the 'court lottery' and make some lawyer a lot of money.

This is probably not likely though since there has been no word from the parents if they even know he is missing.
 
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