Hmmmm

Yes.  A wife,  two sons, and a daughter.

I'm also teaching my kids that the life of the worst person imaginable is more valuable than any material goods. Something about being made in the image of God...

I'm not opposed to guns. Actually have a few myself.  But my first response if someone breaks in isn't going to be to end them. It will be to retreat to a point of safety. If the intruder then continues to come after my family members,  then I would consider physically harming them.

But I get it... right wingers are quite vocal about killing people... and Jesus.  :-|
 
The public does not yet know if the intruder had a weapon of any kind.  The public does not know if it was one shot or several Tom fired.  The public does not know if Tom shot him in the back as he was retreating or put a bullet right between his eyes.  The public does not yet know if the guy was hyped up on drugs or anything about the situation.

You never know, Tom might have spent time giving him the gospel before killing him since winning the lost is number one in the IFB world.  ;)

 
Very judgmental aren't we! Not into killing people. Dont care about my material things! I protect my family. If someone comes into my home by force I dont know their intent, I dont want to be the second person to make a move.

Really I want to kill Jesus? Where in the world did that come from?

Guess Im not as spiritual as you. :(
 
It's actually what got me posting here. Someone on the old FFF had said better that 10 Iraqi (Iranian? Afgani?) civilians killed than one American.

And I have heard plenty of similar statements from other people who claimed to be Christ followers.

Actually I have heard people on here say that they would blow someone away who was taking their TV and tried to use the teachings of Jesus to defend their statement.
 
rsc2a said:
Frankly,  I'm more concerned with what Jesus said than the law.  Where did He say we could waste someone because they are after our  television?
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he that careth not for his own is worse than an infidel.

You might twist this to mean many things.  I happen to think it includes protection. 
 
Binaca Chugger said:
rsc2a said:
Frankly,  I'm more concerned with what Jesus said than the law.  Where did He say we could waste someone because they are after our  television?
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he that careth not for his own is worse than an infidel.

You might twist this to mean many things.  I happen to think it includes protection.
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His own TV...

Yeah... let's go with that.
 
This thread seems to be turning into a discussion on how to protect your family.

FWIW, a local story from our area told of a homeowner 2 days ago who tried to wrestle an intruder to prevent his family from being harmed and hold the intruder until police showed up.  The homeowner was shot in the struggle.

When someone chooses to sin and commit crime,  they are choosing every risk associated with that sin and crime.  This includes arrest or,  quite possibly, death.
 
In my NRA training, they taught us to try to retreat if at all possible.

What complicates this situation is that there was an over emphasis on weapons in that church. Due to public pressure they had to cancel a "gun give away to teens."

When he goes on public TV and says, " Our church, it's almost a prerequisite to be a conceal carry holder to be a member of our church..."

He draws a proper skepticism because he is way over-the-top when it comes to guns.
 
With ^^^ said, I am a firm believer in the Castle Doctrine.
 
rsc2a said:
Just me said:
rsc2a said:
Even if he did not have a weapon Tom had the right to protect his family.
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Said Jesus never.
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True he did not, but God put that nature of protecting in his creation.  Go threaten a bear and her cubs and see the outcome.
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And if the guy didn't have a weapon,  I fail to see where lethal force would be necessary to protect his "cubs".

But then,  right wing 'Christianity" - justifying homicide to protect your TV since who knows when.
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Jesus thought this was normal:

Luke 11:21  When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
 
And WHBC has off duty police officers that are paid to be at every church service.  In talking with those officers they have said to me on several occasions, "If anything happens they will be the first to hit the floor for their safety because of all church members that have concealed carry permits. They do not want to be caught in the crossfire"  They would then chuckle but their face told me they really meant it.

With all the emphisis of guns, shoot first ask questions later and Second Amendment  rights preached and taught by WHBC it is no wonder a cloud of question hangs over Tom's killing of the "intruder".
 
prophet said:
Quote from: rsc2a on December 21, 2014, 09:20:00 AM

Quote from: Just me on December 21, 2014, 05:57:32 AM

Quote from: rsc2a on December 21, 2014, 05:41:45 AM

Even if he did not have a weapon Tom had the right to protect his family.
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Said Jesus never.
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True he did not, but God put that nature of protecting in his creation.  Go threaten a bear and her cubs and see the outcome.
Click to expand...


And if the guy didn't have a weapon,  I fail to see where lethal force would be necessary to protect his "cubs".

But then,  right wing 'Christianity" - justifying homicide to protect your TV since who knows when.
Click to expand...
Jesus thought this was normal:

 Luke 11:21  When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace:
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You kill Jesus....

/snark off
 
News Channel Four, Oklahoma City:

OKLAHOMA CITY – Police say a metro pastor opened fire on an alleged intruder, killing him.

Reverend Tom Vineyard is known as the pastor of Windsor Hills Baptist Church.

However, authorities say Vineyard was protecting his personal  property and his family when he opened fire on an alleged intruder.

Police rushed to the home, near N.W. 23rd St. and MacArthur Blvd.,  Saturday afternoon after Vineyard’s son told dispatchers that his father had shot an intruder.

Officers say the home’s security system alerted the family to the break-in and Vineyard armed himself with a gun.

“The suspect was supposedly shot inside the home. I don’t know whether he passed away inside or outside of the home,” said Staff Sgt. Billy Payne, with the Oklahoma City Police Department.

On December 23, police identified the alleged intruder as 14-year-old Keontre Reese.

Several signs are posted around the pastor’s home. One on the front door reads, “Nothing on this property is worth your life.”

Police say Reese did not heed the warning, and they have no idea why he chose this home.

Police say they are still investigating the shooting.

However, it is unlikely Vineyard will face any charges.

“If this man, obviously, is in his own residence with his family feels threatened, feels his life or his family’s lives are in danger, he does have the right to defend himself,” said Sgt. Jennifer Wardlow, with the Oklahoma City Police Department.
 
Oklahoma City police released the following statement Tuesday:

“The resident, Tom Vineyard, came home and interrupted the burglary while it was still in progress. Mr. Vineyard became involved in a physical altercation with Reese, inside of the residence. While defending himself during the altercation, Mr. Vineyard shot and killed Reese.”
 
Two hours ago a burglar kicked in a door in my neighborhood when the home owner ran the burglar fired shots at him.  He was unhurt but suspect fled on foot and helicopters are buzzing my neighborhood as I write this. 

I am not messing around with anyone willing to kick in a door.  I will shoot to kill and tom was right to do it.   
 
Tanner said:
Two hours ago a burglar kicked in a door in my neighborhood when the home owner ran the burglar fired shots at him.  He was unhurt but suspect fled on foot and helicopters are buzzing my neighborhood as I write this. 

I am not messing around with anyone willing to kick in a door.  I will shoot to kill and tom was right to do it. 
Click to expand...

First of all, this happens all the time and we are only discussing it because of the individual involved.

Second, no one disagrees that in the eyes of the laws of Oklahoma Tom was in the right.  Thus no charges are being filed.

Third given what happened to Tom over in the Ivory coast and his head being smashed in I am sure he is trigger happy.  I understand that.

But in my opinion it does not pass the smell test as being reported in the news reports.  And we only have 2 witnesses to the situation and one of them killed the other!!  how convenient
 
If you have to shoot someone... make sure they will not be able to give their "side" of the story. ;)
 
Just me said:
Tanner said:
Two hours ago a burglar kicked in a door in my neighborhood when the home owner ran the burglar fired shots at him.  He was unhurt but suspect fled on foot and helicopters are buzzing my neighborhood as I write this. 

I am not messing around with anyone willing to kick in a door.  I will shoot to kill and tom was right to do it. 
Click to expand...

First of all, this happens all the time and we are only discussing it because of the individual involved.

Second, no one disagrees that in the eyes of the laws of Oklahoma Tom was in the right.  Thus no charges are being filed.

Third given what happened to Tom over in the Ivory coast and his head being smashed in I am sure he is trigger happy.  I understand that.

But in my opinion it does not pass the smell test as being reported in the news reports.  And we only have 2 witnesses to the situation and one of them killed the other!!  how convenient
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I understand that Tom's credibility has been more than questioned lately, but I have to give anyone defending there home, family and property the benefit of the doubt. This type of conjecture is the same kind that started the riots in Ferguson and is off base.

Should Tom have waited till there was a witness present? Should Tom have used less force? How can any of us without being there conclude anything?

The fact that a man has been guilty of violations of trust under one set of circumstances does not give license to wild speculation about what happened one tragic night in his home. To do so is complete gossip and slander, and stoops to the same level of word-smithing that Tom is being accused of.

It is the equivalent of that "Christian" form of gossip where little sideways hints are dropped about others.

ie
"Pray for Frank, boy he's going through a rough time. No, I don't know what it is, but it it's bad. I know more, but I can't talk about it".
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I dislike that junk.

Just me your experience with WHBC may very well have left you with a bitter taste in your mouth, but wild conjecture weakens your credibility, not theirs.
 
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