Interracial Marriage

[AverageJoe]

BTW, I meant “fundy” not “funny.” Also, the reason I said it’s ok they were segregationists is because they were all operating from what they believed to be a biblical perspective. While they were not practicing Christianity from a 21st century perspective, they were by the standards of their times. However, we know that famous saying that “God’s Word never changes.” Well boys…you’re probably also familiar with another saying: you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Wow...sounds like you're hungry! That was a trademark of Vinney! LOL

 

[AverageJoe]

Nope…I was on the old FFF about 15 years ago. I used to battle with Ransom. That was a different Ransom though…I can recall him using actual Canadian spelling. You’re welcome to dismiss my claims, but understand that users of certain websites (sadly many Christian) are now labeled “alt right” and are being monitored by plants. Go back and analyze “his” posts that lean toward politics/race/etc and you’ll quickly realize your dealings with a Trojan horse.

I, too, was on the old FFF, pretty much from its inception. I sometimes sparred with Ransom, and with many others, but I never took things to heart. Ransom doesn't seem much different to me...But, I don't remember you. Maybe YOU'RE the TROJAN HORSE!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Nope…I was on the old FFF about 15 years ago. I used to battle with Ransom. That was a different Ransom though…I can recall him using actual Canadian spelling. You’re welcome to dismiss my claims, but understand that users of certain websites (sadly many Christian) are now labeled “alt right” and are being monitored by plants. Go back and analyze “his” posts that lean toward politics/race/etc and you’ll quickly realize your dealings with a Trojan horse.

I've been on every iteration of the FFF since somewhere around 2001 and can assure you that the person posting as Ransom has not changed his style of rhetoric. And as it pertains to your current paranoid claim, he demonstrates laser-like focus when he repeatedly has asked you for Biblical exegesis and evidence to support your segregationist claims, which you've failed miserably to do.

And before you claim that I am acting as his toadie, as anybody who has been around the FFF any length of time will attest, me and Ransom aren't exactly bosom buddies. But when he smells somebody ill-equipped to back up their bluster he quickly exploits their vulnerabilities with extremely sharp verbal jabs. You are currently in his cross-hairs. You can continue to obfuscate and point to anecdotal examples, or simply respond to his request with Biblical support for your position.

 

[AverageJoe]

I've been on every iteration of the FFF since somewhere around 2001 and can assure you that the person posting as Ransom has not changed his style of rhetoric. And as it pertains to your current paranoid claim, he demonstrates laser-like focus when he repeatedly has asked you for Biblical exegesis and evidence to support your segregationist claims, which you've failed miserably to do.

And before you claim that I am acting as his toadie, as anybody who has been around the FFF any length of time will attest, me and Ransom aren't exactly bosom buddies. But when he smells somebody ill-equipped to back up their bluster he quickly exploits their vulnerabilities with extremely sharp verbal jabs. You are currently in his cross-hairs. You can continue to obfuscate and point to anecdotal examples, or simply respond to his request with Biblical support for your position.

I've had the same observations, ALAYMAN! This person seems to be oblivious to the fact that many of us have been around for years and know the style of and verbage used by Ransom! I say that Strom is an imposter!

 

[tmjbog]

BTW, I meant “fundy” not “funny.” Also, the reason I said it’s ok they were segregationists is because they were all operating from what they believed to be a biblical perspective. While they were not practicing Christianity from a 21st century perspective, they were by the standards of their times. However, we know that famous saying that “God’s Word never changes.” Well boys…you’re probably also familiar with another saying: you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

They were also not practicing Christianity as it was practiced for the first 1600 years. The idea that there was something wrong with interracial marriage seems to have come from a race based slave owning people.

 

[tmjbog]

I can understand why you’d say that given I didn’t copy/paste the entire article, only a small selection. Here’s my point with this entire conversation…it’s ok if all of these guys were segregationists. Today, for example, you see guys like Ransom on here referring to these great biblical men of God (and founders of your colleges and therefore by extension, many of your churches) as “racists,” “funny,” “fools,” and “idiots.” (Incidentally, although I have no proof, I happen to firmly believe “Ransom” is a Trojan Horse and is more than likely more than one person, not Canadian but rather American, and is probably operating as a low level government informant. Notice his American version of spelling and his ultimate derision toward fundamentalists.)

I can assure you none of them founded the college I went to or the church I go to. I worship Jesus Christ not Jack Hyles, Bob Jones, or whomever your favorite idol is.

Ransom....Dude I thought we discussed this at our last meeting back in Washington? The secretary clearly stated that FFF was to be my jurisdiction.

 

[tmjbog]

You make a good point…but the races weren’t an issue because pre-Triangular Trade days, the races were not really mixed into different continents, so it wasn’t even an issue. I know there were rare exceptions, but 99.99% a moot point

You like that 99% guess you keep throwing out there don't you? They were common enough in the Elizabethan period to be included in several of Shakespeare's plays. Highlight from an article that discuses interracial marriage in Spanish colonies in early 1500's:

In 1503, Queen Elizabeth demanded Governor Nicolás Ovando, a fundamental man in the first years of European presence in America, to promote mixed marriages, “which are legitimate and recommended because the Indians are free vassals of the Spanish Crown”

Spain promoted mixed marriages with indigenous people 500 years before it was legal in the USA

In 1503, Queen Elizabeth demanded Governor Nicolás Ovando, a fundamental man in the first years of European presence in America, to promote mixed

themazatlanpost.com

 

[ALAYMAN]

I remember you, Allyman. I can’t give biblical reasons for why these preachers believed in segregation because I’m approaching it with 21st century lenses…but they did. I even posted a video clip of Dr Bob Jones doing so in his own words! So…either all of these men of God got it wrong or we are today. Thankfully the rudimentary technology existed to get some of these sentiments on recording, otherwise y’all would claim I’m making it all up. Human nature is truly astonishing

The point of contention that is clearly in view is that it doesn't matter what these men taught, but rather "what does the Scriptures say". The fallacy in your argument is that of an appeal to authority (in the form of counting noses). If you agree with these men you cite (and Graham was cited out of context, which doesn't help your credibility at forming and sustaining arguments) then you ought to step up to the plate and offer some Scripture for a valid basis of supporting your/their view.

 

[ALAYMAN]

... I say that Strom is an imposter!

I think a little trolling going on, and it could be trolling from recent members, or prior FFF persona. I've never been a fan of spoofing/trolling (whether in sock-puppet form or other means, cept for maybe Phil Armenik ), but from the few historical hints Strom has dropped I have a couple of guesses who it could be, but will reserve them for now until more details emerge.

 

[tmjbog]

I think a little trolling going on, and it could be trolling from recent members, or prior FFF persona. I've never been a fan of spoofing/trolling (whether in sock-puppet form or other means, cept for maybe Phil Armenik ), but from the few historical hints Strom has dropped I have a couple of guesses who it could be, but will reserve them for now until more details emerge.

I was suspecting a parody account. All his details are set up to mimic the late Strom Thurman. If you truly opposed interracial marriage and purity of the races Strom would be the hypocrite of your movement. While he paid lip service to those issues, he also had a bi-racial daughter.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Churches are literally shutting down and being converted into condos and coffee shops. Outside of the mega churches, which are more like nightclubs than places of worship, churches are void of members and those in service tend to almost exclusively be 60+ years of age. The men of yesteryear were bold and brave, not afraid of being called politically incorrect, groveling for mercy and apologizing for nothing. How far we’ve fallen.

Okay, if your efforts are to generate some traffic and revive a lethargic forum, I get it, but to be a good caricature you have to be innovative and creative. So far, you're a step or two from losing people's interest as "Strom" the fundamentalist. So I will help you out for just a spell longer. You said you were here about 15 years ago. Let's start with you naming a few FFF folk from anywhere near that timeframe.

Or, if you are claiming to be legit, start supporting your agenda with Scripture rather than merely other (fundy) men's opinion.

 

[Ransom]

Well, we are in the United States, and this is a forum for *fundamentalists.* If you want to discuss the role of the Catholic Church and the slave trade, there’s certainly plenty of material, but this seems rather exhausting and unnecessary given (see sentence #1).

You've been on the forum for an entire weekend, and you're already trying to police other people's posting.

So cut it out.

There's a reason I'm not even considering your probably-not-sincere offer to moderate.

 

[Ransom]

Since you’re not a fan of Dr Bob Jones, we’ll shift to Billy Graham.

Billy Graham, noted apostle. LOL!

How about more Bible, and less patristics?

 

[Ransom]

(Incidentally, although I have no proof

Is this the motto on your coat of arms? You should translate it into Latin.

That bit about my being a low-level government plant is pure gold. It's going into my sig. Sorry, Twisted.

 

[ALAYMAN]

I remember you, Allyman. I can’t give biblical reasons for why these preachers believed in segregation because I’m approaching it with 21st century lenses…but they did. I even posted a video clip of Dr Bob Jones doing so in his own words! So…either all of these men of God got it wrong or we are today. Thankfully the rudimentary technology existed to get some of these sentiments on recording, otherwise y’all would claim I’m making it all up. Human nature is truly astonishing

And by the way, something of more serious weight to ponder, the "they were men of their times" argument only has explanatory powers but is void of ultimate ethical/moral grounds for justification.

 

[AverageJoe]

I think a little trolling going on, and it could be trolling from recent members, or prior FFF persona. I've never been a fan of spoofing/trolling (whether in sock-puppet form or other means, cept for maybe Phil Armenik ), but from the few historical hints Strom has dropped I have a couple of guesses who it could be, but will reserve them for now until more details emerge.

Since he showed up shortly after Vinney disappeared and has somewhat of a similar writing style as Vinney had...he's one of the people I'm thinking it could be! But, I'm thinking of a couple of others as well. I always loved Phil Armenik! That was a blast!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Obviously I knew of you and Ransom. In another post, I asked about the well-being of Dr Bob from Wyoming (although apparently he’s no longer in Wyoming). I don’t really recall the names of everyone. I do recall one guy who was an Christian-turned-atheist…had been in the military and had dreadlocks. Don’t recall the name though.

Ok, wow, one of my two suspicions to your identity has just escalated by enormous proportion. All harassing aside, especially if you are who I think you are, glad you found your way back here.

 

[AverageJoe]

Obviously I knew of you and Ransom. In another post, I asked about the well-being of Dr Bob from Wyoming (although apparently he’s no longer in Wyoming). I don’t really recall the names of everyone. I do recall one guy who was an Christian-turned-atheist…had been in the military and had dreadlocks. Don’t recall the name though.

Can't recall his name....but I do remember him. I believe he and his wife, who also posted on the FFF, divorced. I also remember Pastor Sam Martin, who was always accusing me of using aliases to attack him...now that was funny, and was how I got my "Urned" Dawktor8 from Alex Peterson and Pickle University! LOL

 

[ALAYMAN]

Can't recall his name....but I do remember him. I believe he and his wife, who also posted on the FFF, divorced. ... and was how I got my "Urned" Dawktor8 from Alex Peterson and Pickle University! LOL

Alex was great! Back in those days I was using dial-up, and didn't have a lot of use for the internet, other than my FFF addiction , but Alex had some Sunday School teaching aids in e-form and I ordered it from him. I lost it in the course of time, but remember at the time I bought it from him that those tips and lessons were VERY helpful. Alex was another one of those insiders to fundyland, like Coyote, who I sparred with at times fairly intensely, but at the end of the day there was no animus between us.
And you are correct about the fella that Strom referenced, think I remember his handle, but ain't gonna reveal it right now.

 

[AverageJoe]

Alex was great! Back in those days I was using dial-up, and didn't have a lot of use for the internet, other than my FFF addiction , but Alex had some Sunday School teaching aids in e-form and I ordered it from him. I lost it in the course of time, but remember at the time I bought it from him that those tips and lessons were VERY helpful. Alex was another one of those insiders to fundyland, like Coyote, who I sparred with at times fairly intensely, but at the end of the day there was no animus between us.
And you are correct about the fella that Strom referenced, think I remember his handle, but ain't gonna reveal it right now.

Wasn't it a military handle? I can't remember right off hand...I'll have to go back through some of the files I kept! I know he's in there several times. I lost touch with Alex...mainly because he was becoming an old, cranky man, and he didn't like being called on some of his unscriptural behaviors after he retired. Don't know why he slid so far back, but I still pray for him.