Is IFB a cult?

So if the life of the mother and the life of the baby are not in jeopardy, do you agree that taking the life of the baby should not be allowed?
the fetus isn't a baby yet. Since no one knows what could happen...like no one knows whether a life-threatening situation could happen, or whether there's a teenager that got raped, that it's important to not have a law against abortion then. A mother should know what she's doing, most women aren't murderers or would intend on murdering (I'm not sure though about most, I won't judge), not as much as men. There's 14 states that don't allow abortion at all. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...king-where-abortion-laws-stand-in-every-state I don't know...I don't think it's right to press a criminal charge on a patient... It doesn't seem like the research I've done so far in some states have a law against women who get one. It's important to check the law rather than hearsay....so https://guides.sll.texas.gov/abortion-laws/criminal-penalties "The patient who obtains an abortion is rarely at risk of criminal penalties under Texas's statutes. More often, the criminal penalties apply to the person performing the abortion."
 
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Okay, first of all, I’m assuming you’re a Christian. If so, there’s no legitimate place in Christian reasoning to allow for “the conscience” to overrule explicit Biblical mandates against murder (or any other plain Biblical prohibition).

Secondly it is proper to consider legitimate “life of the mother” arguments as viable cases for “abortion” (not elective abortion). Having said that, you moved the goalposts from rape as justification for abortion to life of the mother.

Edit: voicecrying beat me to it while I was typing.
no, I'm not a Christian and don't want to be one. I read the Bible though. I've seen love in the Bible when I read it. I'm a sinner too, I'm not proud thinking I'm not one. I'm for the death penalty for murderers but not in the way the law of the US wants. I would rather a murderer die a swift death if he intentionally (deliberately) kills someone and I would rather there be like the 6th amendment, a speedy and fair public trial.
 
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there is a doctor of pediatric urology in pittsburg named omar ayyash.... i;m just wondering why you chose to use his name if you are not actually him....... ... but it doesn;t matter.... i was just curious
well...that's my name. It's possible that multiple people can carry the same first and last name.
 
well...that's my name.
ok.... well.... welcome to the forum...:). ... aleshanee is my real middle name.... a few people here know the rest of it but they keep that secret at my request.... .... and... i;m not a doctor either but i do have some medical education... mostly all pre-med.....

now.... as far as the aborton issue is concerned... if you are not a christian then i can see how you would not find value in a new life created in the womb....(the fetus as you called it)..... ... ..but it is indeed a new life.... and as a christian.. in my view... it;s a life that God has put there.. a human being with a living soul that God knows......

i am very much against abortion at all stages and in almost all situations... with the exceptions being when the mothers life is in danger and there is absolutely no other way to save them both.... ....... things like ectopic pregnancy require emergency surgery ..through the abdominal wall... and should not even be considered a part of the abortion discussion.... and that;s not just my opinion it;s a medical fact....
 
well, if they don't allow women to get abortions in some states, which they don't...

In fact, no state would deny a woman life-saving care, including an abortion if necessary. Of course, such instances are exceedingly rare and shouldn't really be used as baseline cases. Hard cases make bad law, as they say.

Or a forced rape victim, namely a teenager, who won't be able to handle the responsibility of raising that child.

What did the child do to merit the death penalty?

well, since she's the mother, it should be up to her to decide.

Whether or not a living being is human is not something we get to decide for ourselves.
 
the fetus isn't a baby yet.

When does a fetus become a human? And whenever that time is, what is your basis for that belief?
Since no one knows what could happen...like no one knows whether a life-threatening situation could happen, or whether there's a teenager that got raped, that it's important to not have a law against abortion then.

Why does rape make the fetus not a human? Why should the human in the mothers belly be punished/murdered for something it did not criminally do?
…..I don't think it's right to press a criminal charge on a patient...

What if the “patient” murders a human that is inside “the patient’s” body?
 
no, I'm not a Christian and don't want to be one. I read the Bible though. I've seen love in the Bible when I read it. I'm a sinner too, I'm not proud thinking I'm not one. I'm for the death penalty for murderers but not in the way the law of the US wants. I would rather a murderer die a swift death if he intentionally (deliberately) kills someone and I would rather there be like the 6th amendment, a speedy and fair public trial.

Why don’t you want to be one (a Christian)?
 
People need the freedom to be able to do what's right according to their conscience.

That's not exactly an objective standard, is it? In fact, I'd imagine "according to their conscience" has led to more than its fair share of gassings, lynchings, and honour killings.

the fetus isn't a baby yet.

Then what is it? It's a human being at a certain level of development, living in the proper environment for its nurture and growth. Which makes abortion the moral equivalent of forcing an innocent man to walk the plank.

Since no one knows what could happen...like no one knows whether a life-threatening situation could happen, or whether there's a teenager that got raped, that it's important to not have a law against abortion then.

In fact, we do know "what could happen." The mechanics of reproduction have been well understood for many centuries. Maybe our energy would be better spent doing our level best to make sure the "could happens" are "didn't happens."

Meanwhile, apparently rape is the only crime in which an appropriate and just penalty is to find and exterminate the rapist's offspring. Are there any other crimes you'd like to apply this same justice to? Commit a murder, we shoot your firstborn son?

I'm for the death penalty for murderers but not in the way the law of the US wants.

Are you also for the use of the death penalty for rapists? Or is it sufficient to you that we kill his offspring--the one person in the case who is unquestionably blameless?

Here's a question for you. If we were to concede that abortion is justifiable a) to save the life of the mother, and b) in the case of rape, would you join with us to condemn the millions of elective abortions that are not performed for either of those reasons?
 
First off, Camp Tracey....two men groping (think adultery) then paddling a teenage girl there, one after the other after the other... This is one example...Hephzibah house, Rebekah house for girls, and so on. It should never be a man lay a hand on a teenage girl...no matter the time period or even since time began that should never be so unless of course it's the parent...but it should be moreso with the mother that should be the one disciplining her daughter, because this is same-gender, same with father to son. This is my gripes against it, and so I fully disagree with the IFB on this! Not only that, but they torture boys and girls...the list is so extensive, if you did research you would loathe and be sick from it. God is definitely not there, at least with these pedophiles around! If you want to make a difference, put all these men to death... These rapists and "people who think they're exercisizing corporal punishment and think it's from God (as they somehow believe it's "god's will" when they paddle a teenage girl like that" and so forth....justifying pedophilia by corporal punishment. It's what it is. There is no reasoning involved, it's bad! And all those men (not father) who've abused a girl and tortured too or a boy, should be put in prison with shackles...my anger burns. They use God as an excuse to justify harming a girl (and they say it's of God!). What misogynist ungodly people; God created man both male and female in His image. Also those men who see a rod as a paddle, which a rod isn't but it's thin and reed-like, to discipline a girl with and scourge them with on their bottoms are evil people (not following the proverbs about it but twisting it with their desire which is sexual by nature), and those male instructors who have done it in a private Christian school are evil too, sexually abusive. They see females as inferior and objects of sexual desire, that they could satisfy their sexual lust with. "Holier than thou" kind of people. Sick. I don't care if it was 30 years ago or not. That's for the parents and the parents ONLY, and even they shouldn't abuse their own children. Spanking is good, but not what those at Camp Tracey did, they need to be held accountable. Or maybe they need to bring back scourging, so that these men could face scourging, those who abuse girls. I think too that I need to be scourged as well for being sexually aroused by it myself! Here's one more that should get you to pause and consider about it....a girl was murdered in the florida IFB boarding school while trying to build something for them...and there was a death threat by mack ford toward a girl, saying that if she left he would kill her after he had beat her too and he raped some girls too... And the baby paddling by Ron William's wife even after the baby stopped crying she still paddled him and Ron Williams, her husband, said "hit him sister, hit him!" even after the baby stopped crying and the one woman who saw it thought that he would die! Also the girls at Camp Tracey committed suicide attempts because of what was happening to them there and many boys and girls who've been there don't want their "god" to serve their "god" they want nothing to do with that "god"....Some people decided they wanted nothing to do with church anymore...If God does not see all this, then He does not exist... but I believe He does, and He will punish them. All of this should cause you all to stop and consider about this... This stuff is worse than BDSM....far worse, this is real, not a joke, not for fun, not for some sick leisure time arousal, they do it because they think it's from "god" but really when it boils down to it, they are getting a sexual arousal out of it. There were some gay people too along the way...
Do you have any police reports to back this up? I don't question what you're saying its just so important for information. We have these reports from many sources saying the same things on this board.
 
I would agree with this assessment. I will add that for the ones that you stated you did not directly observe, I have.

"Questions or doubts are discouraged" - I've heard preachers say that the people should always go with what the preacher said if you are in doubt.

"Mind-altering practices, e.g. chants, meditation, denunciations, harsh work routines" - maybe to a lesser degree on this - the 20 extra verses of a hymn at invitation time, the demands that the people participate in every activity, etc. does lead to a change in how your mind works.

"Teaches that the cult's ends justify the means" - I've heard many excuse bad theology because "people are getting saved."

"Leadership requires members to cut ties with family and friends" - maybe to a lesser degree, not cut ties completely, but if there is a family function that occurs at the same time as a church function, you better believe you'd be preached about if you went to the family function. If you skip the family function to attend the church function, you are at least damaging the ties to family and friends.


Preoccupied with making money
I, too, have been in some IFB churches that were cult leaning. When people tried to leave these churches they were ostracized and at times even stalked and intimidated. One church my wife and I were members of had to have a restraining order taken out against them because they were stalking my wife at work, and the pastors father and brother came to my place of employment and assaulted me while I was exiting the bathroom. The constant badgering of people concerning the KJVO position is another thing people need to be on the watch for.
 
Hebrews 12:15 says, "See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that no root of bitterness springs up to cause trouble and defile many."

We're all sinners; Everyone of us have been shown grace. Some needing more than others. When we show the grace we've been shown, some drain it from us to the point that we run short and that is when bitterness sets in. Yes, many wicked men who should know better do unspeakable evil to others. It's hard, to maintain a position of grace towards them. But if we're to avoid bitterness in our lives, bitterness which continues to propagate the damage done previously, we need to cling to the Father and through His Holy Spirit show grace at all times. Now, I'm not advocating a "let bygones be bygones" kind of approach to those who do evil; as much as lies within us we need to hold them accountable for their misdeeds; God certainly will and He does so all the time, but if we're STILL FUMING over "ministries" that were shutdown DECADES ago and their leaders have come to account, whether in this life or the one to come, we have clearly allowed a root of bitterness to spring up.
 
Do you have any police reports to back this up? I don't question what you're saying its just so important for information. We have these reports from many sources saying the same things on this board.
I would....there's some testimonies of people, if you look around on the internet.
 
Do you have any police reports to back this up? I don't question what you're saying its just so important for information. We have these reports from many sources saying the same things on this board.
Police and the courts have been looking into them hearing reports about abuse among other things that go on in these places...Just have to look around, there isn't a specific police report, but the witnesses of survivors is enough. There have been times where police would even rescue girls and boys from these places.
 
ok.... well.... welcome to the forum...:). ... aleshanee is my real middle name.... a few people here know the rest of it but they keep that secret at my request.... .... and... i;m not a doctor either but i do have some medical education... mostly all pre-med.....

now.... as far as the aborton issue is concerned... if you are not a christian then i can see how you would not find value in a new life created in the womb....(the fetus as you called it)..... ... ..but it is indeed a new life.... and as a christian.. in my view... it;s a life that God has put there.. a human being with a living soul that God knows......

i am very much against abortion at all stages and in almost all situations... with the exceptions being when the mothers life is in danger and there is absolutely no other way to save them both.... ....... things like ectopic pregnancy require emergency surgery ..through the abdominal wall... and should not even be considered a part of the abortion discussion.... and that;s not just my opinion it;s a medical fact....
most people don't know any of that. Police, politicians, and the common person. They see what they see and they live by that. Some people will genuinely love their children even from conception and some might not see it till after they are born.
 
Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
These people have done such unspeakable things to the girls and boys under their "care" that they are deserving of death....they have no humanity left in them to torture children especially as they have done keeping them from family as well.... That's what I'm saying. If I did, I would turn myself over to the police right away, but no normal person would ever do that. They went too far. It's as the old testament says, how certain people would be put to death because the evil of their deeds was too much...
 
Do you have any police reports to back this up? I don't question what you're saying its just so important for information. We have these reports from many sources saying the same things on this board.
I just fear bringing up specific sites about like Camp Tracey, it was unbearable for me, and too dark....that I don't even want to. There's a couple of youtube videos from two survivors on there.
 
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