Is instrumental rock music immoral (bad)?

[Just John]

Since it is your contention that music communicates a message. What was the message from that simple drum beat?

What message is communicated by the letter "A"?  Is it an indefinite article?  A letter grade for a test?  Symbolic of a woman caught in adultery?  All the above?  The answer is that it depends upon context intent of the author.  Music is much the same.  Rock music (which is an overly broad term in and of itself) can be moral, or immoral, just as drumbeats strung together.

Especially when I listen to Building 429...

I like "Where I Belong", and don't have a blanket condemnation of any particular musical genre per se (except maybe rap and death metal ).

Can you give me an example of immoral drumbeats?

The kind those first white missionaries heard the black African heathen's playing don't you know?

 

[Just John]

Since it is your contention that music communicates a message. What was the message from that simple drum beat?

What message is communicated by the letter "A"?  Is it an indefinite article?  A letter grade for a test?  Symbolic of a woman caught in adultery?  All the above?  The answer is that it depends upon context intent of the author.  Music is much the same.  Rock music (which is an overly broad term in and of itself) can be moral, or immoral, just as drumbeats strung together.

Especially when I listen to Building 429...

I like "Where I Belong", and don't have a blanket condemnation of any particular musical genre per se (except maybe rap and death metal ).

Can you give me an example of immoral drumbeats?

The kind those first white missionaries heard the black African heathen's playing don't you know?

you mean like this kind?........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kJaH7tUvs

Exactly!  I wish I wouldn't have listened though. All I could think of was lust and drugs. 

 

[Sola scriptural]

David played instrumental music to soothe Saul, so we must concede at the very least that music can change moods. 

But, to what extent can we place morality on it?

If some music is immoral, what does moral music sound like? 

Music can be highly subjective to cultures as well.  Traditionally romantic music in one culture would hardly illicit a whimper to someone of another culture.

Subjective, subjective, subjective. (In my book)

It doesn't always change moods.

And the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.  And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin; but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night. 1 Samuel 19:9-10

Maybe he was playing immoral music!

 

[ALAYMAN]

Since you hold to the opinion of immoral drumbeats, ...

You continue to misrepresent or misunderstand my position.  I just re-read the whole thread, and at no point have I said that individual drumbeats are immoral.  To the contrary, I've been quite explicit that a number of factors must be the determining factors (authorial intent being primary), but I have stated that stringing beats/notes together is a minimal consideration.

 

[Mathew Ward]

Since you hold to the opinion of immoral drumbeats, ...

You continue to misrepresent or misunderstand my position.  I just re-read the whole thread, and at no point have I said that individual drumbeats are immoral.  To the contrary, I've been quite explicit that a number of factors must be the determining factors (authorial intent being primary), but I have stated that stringing beats/notes together is a minimal consideration.

Here is your quote...

"Rock music (which is an overly broad term in and of itself) can be moral, or immoral, just as drumbeats strung together."

Since rock music can be moral or immoral just like drumbeats strung together. Doesn't that make drumbeats strung together either moral or immoral?

If they are moral or immoral they I have been asking for the example of immoral drumbeats strung together.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Here is your quote...

"Rock music (which is an overly broad term in and of itself) can be moral, or immoral, just as drumbeats strung together."

Since rock music can be moral or immoral just like drumbeats strung together. Doesn't that make drumbeats strung together either moral or immoral?

If they are moral or immoral they I have been asking for the example of immoral drumbeats strung together.

Maybe you did misunderstand me then.  Letters, like "A" strung together form an understandable intent and communication (some more subjective and ambiguous than others, though I repeat myself ).  In that respect of communication (and consequent morality) music has similar properties.  Stated differently, individual drum beats taken in isolation are very likely amoral, but take person/composer and string some together and then you more likely have something intended to communicate a message, and hence, a moral communication.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Here is your quote...

"Rock music (which is an overly broad term in and of itself) can be moral, or immoral, just as drumbeats strung together."

Since rock music can be moral or immoral just like drumbeats strung together. Doesn't that make drumbeats strung together either moral or immoral?

If they are moral or immoral they I have been asking for the example of immoral drumbeats strung together.

Maybe you did misunderstand me then.  Letters, like "A" strung together form an understandable intent and communication (some more subjective and ambiguous than others, though I repeat myself ).  In that respect of communication (and consequent morality) music has similar properties.  Stated differently, individual drum beats taken in isolation are very likely amoral, but take person/composer and string some together and then you more likely have something intended to communicate a message, and hence, a moral communication.

can you provide an actual example of such music?....... or just give us the name of the composition that has a string of drum beats in it you would consider immoral?......... ......... and remember... we are talking about purely instrumental music here......  nothing with words... which i believe actually can make music immoral.....

I may undertake that request, but again, just so I understand your position, are you saying that (instrumental) music doesn't communicate any message? 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here's how a drumbeat can communicate a clear message for those who have ears to hear. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XHwygN9CKM

 

[ALAYMAN]

not saying that all....... i am saying the message might not be received the same way for each person who hears it.. ... and it;s not anywhere near the same... or as clear... as a message delivered through words can be.... ........ and yet.... there is a time and place for all the messages instrumental music might impart....... .
....

Completely agree, and have said so in this thread, that instrumental music (of whatever genre) is extremely subjective in terms of its meaning.  Heck, there are scores of websites on the net that are designed for the sole purpose of explaining the meaning of lyrics.  How much more ambiguous might chords and notes be when compared to lyrics?  That's the nature of communication.  But conceding that a form of communication is to some greater or lesser degree decipherable does not negate its moral nature.

but are you saying you believe an instrumental piece of music with no words at all in it can be evil or immoral?.... ..... seems like that is what gothard was saying in the article bibleburner posted a few weeks back........ .
....

I've not studied Gothard (other than his "umbrella of authority" stuff) at all, but yes, I do believe that instrumental music can be designed to convey a message that is immoral.

 

[Mathew Ward]

not saying that all....... i am saying the message might not be received the same way for each person who hears it.. ... and it;s not anywhere near the same... or as clear... as a message delivered through words can be.... ........ and yet.... there is a time and place for all the messages instrumental music might impart....... .
....

Completely agree, and have said so in this thread, that instrumental music (of whatever genre) is extremely subjective in terms of its meaning.  Heck, there are scores of websites on the net that are designed for the sole purpose of explaining the meaning of lyrics.  How much more ambiguous might chords and notes be when compared to lyrics?  That's the nature of communication.  But conceding that a form of communication is to some greater or lesser degree decipherable does not negate its moral nature.

but are you saying you believe an instrumental piece of music with no words at all in it can be evil or immoral?.... ..... seems like that is what gothard was saying in the article bibleburner posted a few weeks back........ .
....

I've not studied Gothard (other than his "umbrella of authority" stuff) at all, but yes, I do believe that instrumental music can be designed to convey a message that is immoral.

Would you have an example of such?

How would you make that determination?

For me when it comes to the lryics of a song I like to read what the writer says about their song.

 

[ALAYMAN]

Would you have an example of such?

You mean immoral instrumental music?

How would you make that determination?

This could be an elaborate answer philosophically, but I'll keep it simple, cause that's how I think (simple ).  First, repeating myself, it is admittedly subjective in nature.  I consider the intent of the author, if possible.  Second, I consider how it makes me, or others I'm responsible for, react/feel.  Third, I consider its association(s) with other people and lifestyles.  And of course some of it is relative to my own experience.  I listened to AC/DC, Quiet Riot, Aerosmith, Ozzy, etc, and music that gives me that same vibe is pretty much off limits.

For me when it comes to the lryics of a song I like to read what the writer says about their song.

Absolutely.  But even with that, it might not pass my must (based on the reasons above).

 

[Just John]

you mean like this kind?........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kJaH7tUvs

Exactly!  I wish I wouldn't have listened though. All I could think of was lust and drugs. 

but i heard if you play it backwards it will make you dedicated to abstinence and sobriety...... .....

Hahaha! Well played!