Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?

[AmazedbyGrace]

Many want it to all come out in the wash - all of it. Whatever the truth turns out to be.

Warning people about gossip to the point where there is "dead silence" is detrimental in the search for truth.

Exhibit A:

Another old, unsolved murder case involving LBC....again, no outrage. Hush-hush...nothing going on here. This was also a 100% faithful family of the church.

http://articles.latimes.com/.../me-3953_1_downtown-lancaster

Broken link

Thank you for pointing that out. I have fixed it.

That is a crazy, wild story.  Imaginations abound......  I wonder..... where are they now?

To the best of my knowledge, the parents are still faithful members. Their "dead silence" did not help generate enough clues to solve this case.

 

[prophet]

I watched live Paul Chappell address this issue with the church. I believe he addressed it with grace and said what any of us would say and feel if someone close to us had committed such a crime.

The fact that this man committed such a terrible act does not mean you have to vilify his entire life. It seems there were underlying  decisions this man made that brought him to the point of making these terrible decisions. Based on what he said, the church has been helping his family for many months and also reached out to help the victims family.

Truly, I am not sure what else is expected. Like LBC, PC or not...I don't know what else should have been said or done. Just my opinion...

BTW...Ash...not directing at you specifically.

You a member there?

There is alot of flip-flopping going on with this story.  He wasn't a part of us / He was our best friend - We reached out to him / We told people to stay away from him - He made a series of bad decisions / He was on prescription drugs and not in his right mind - etc, etc, etc.  When people blatantly lie to the press and then backtrack and proclaim the opposite......

Yes, Balaam, this forum is full of people who are tired of being lied to by the PC, JH types.  We are tired of scandal in churches.

The fact that the mayor is joining the addiction story is interesting.  I can't believe a political figure would intentionally risk his career over such a fiasco.  So, maybe the pain pills is a part of it - but there must be more to the story than "he was on medicine so he hunted down and shot up his best friend, then drove off and killed himself."  Things like that just don't happen.  There is more to the story.

Maybe the rest of the story is simply personal and the story belongs to none of us.  Surely, the God-haters are pointing to this as proof that church is evil - which is a false conclusion.  We here, see these familiar phrases that wreak of church cover-up.  For those who are unfamiliar with the IFB mega-church scandals, it goes like this:

• Changing Stories
• Glorifying the leader, even when he is guilty
• Ignoring the offended
• Telling people in the church to not ask questions (sin of gossip)
• Telling people in the church that the church leadership is caring for the problem (Ostrich Syndrome)
• Never being forthcoming with the public
• Business as usual, everyone is against us mentality

Are we going to get those answers on this forum?  Nope.  Most of us never heard of these two deceased before the event.  We post not out of anger and spite, but because we have been through deception and cover-ups and manipulation of religious leaders.  We are challenging others to think for themselves and not put their head in the sand.  Maybe, just maybe, there is more to the story and maybe, just maybe, some might recognize a need to make some changes.

Don't forget the classic "Satan is attacking us".

Of course.  That one answers everything.  It's the universal one-size-fits-all.  It makes sense that Satan is attacking us, we are 10x's better/the only ones who are right.

Anishinaabe

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Maybe if a few hundred church members would have spilled their guts and told everything they knew the police could have put together the puzzle pieces.

 

[T-Bone]

Hmmmm. Here at FBC Hammond, if I am not mistaken, Paul Chappell has been invited to speak sometime this coming year. A lot of announcements were verbally made about upcoming conferences, events. I am fairly certain PC was mentioned, because the church's radio program carries a daily message from Paul Chappell and that was referenced as well.


I might add also, we were strongly admonished in last nightt's sermon to avoid these internet sites / discussions. No mention of this particular situation, but just a general "avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it and pass away. Do not speak of it, do not open your mouth or type words on such matters as internet speculation / gossip.

Those type of warnings seem to be making the rounds in sermons these days.

Yeah, because the worst thing possible to happen is to have a congregation that is aware and asking questions! :

The worst thing is for people to gossip about things they nothing about...and I heard with my own ears OC tell his congregation if you have any questions, ask any deacon, pastor staff or himself. I really think a true understanding of the fact that both of these families seem to be apart of affiliated with LBC should be considered...

A wife and 5 children have lost heir husband and he took someone else's life... grace and love is needed not gossip and harshness...for both families.

Here's hoping the leadership of that church has the same concern for the families involved as you have expressed here.  That being said, you cannot expect people to trust a leadership that has failed them over and over again...it's not so simply because someone in leadership within the church with the problems says it's so.

I have no problem with your statement at all.
But, I have also had to deal with church members and in one instance a staff member who engaged in sinful lifestyles and things aren't always cut and dry so to speak. And there are innocent family members that you must consider when dealing with such issues.

I have no dog in the fight, but haven't seen anything at this point to make me a conspiracy theorist as to the church's response. But it will eventually all come out in the wash....

I too have no dog in the fight...I too believe we should always be concerned for the impact of things on the family of victims.  My point as I do not know all the specifics of this incident goes back to church leaders warning their people about being on websites and only trusting what their leadership gives them from a limited perspective.  If one doesn't trust the leadership, why would they only ask them for the view of the things that are going on.  The problem in many churches is the lack of leadership with integrity or the lack of trust in leadership for a lot of reasons.

 

[Holy Mole]

I watched live Paul Chappell address this issue with the church. I believe he addressed it with grace and said what any of us would say and feel if someone close to us had committed such a crime.

The fact that this man committed such a terrible act does not mean you have to vilify his entire life. It seems there were underlying  decisions this man made that brought him to the point of making these terrible decisions. Based on what he said, the church has been helping his family for many months and also reached out to help the victims family.

Truly, I am not sure what else is expected. Like LBC, PC or not...I don't know what else should have been said or done. Just my opinion...

BTW...Ash...not directing at you specifically.

You a member there?

There is alot of flip-flopping going on with this story.  He wasn't a part of us / He was our best friend - We reached out to him / We told people to stay away from him - He made a series of bad decisions / He was on prescription drugs and not in his right mind - etc, etc, etc.  When people blatantly lie to the press and then backtrack and proclaim the opposite......

Yes, Balaam, this forum is full of people who are tired of being lied to by the PC, JH types.  We are tired of scandal in churches.

The fact that the mayor is joining the addiction story is interesting.  I can't believe a political figure would intentionally risk his career over such a fiasco.  So, maybe the pain pills is a part of it - but there must be more to the story than "he was on medicine so he hunted down and shot up his best friend, then drove off and killed himself."  Things like that just don't happen.  There is more to the story.

Maybe the rest of the story is simply personal and the story belongs to none of us.  Surely, the God-haters are pointing to this as proof that church is evil - which is a false conclusion.  We here, see these familiar phrases that wreak of church cover-up.  For those who are unfamiliar with the IFB mega-church scandals, it goes like this:

• Changing Stories
• Glorifying the leader, even when he is guilty
• Ignoring the offended
• Telling people in the church to not ask questions (sin of gossip)
• Telling people in the church that the church leadership is caring for the problem (Ostrich Syndrome)
• Never being forthcoming with the public
• Business as usual, everyone is against us mentality

Are we going to get those answers on this forum?  Nope.  Most of us never heard of these two deceased before the event.  We post not out of anger and spite, but because we have been through deception and cover-ups and manipulation of religious leaders.  We are challenging others to think for themselves and not put their head in the sand.  Maybe, just maybe, there is more to the story and maybe, just maybe, some might recognize a need to make some changes.

Don't forget the classic "Satan is attacking us".

That goes without saying but the question is who are Satan's most effective instruments here?

 

[bgwilkinson]

Hmmmm. Here at FBC Hammond, if I am not mistaken, Paul Chappell has been invited to speak sometime this coming year. A lot of announcements were verbally made about upcoming conferences, events. I am fairly certain PC was mentioned, because the church's radio program carries a daily message from Paul Chappell and that was referenced as well.


I might add also, we were strongly admonished in last nightt's sermon to avoid these internet sites / discussions. No mention of this particular situation, but just a general "avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it and pass away. Do not speak of it, do not open your mouth or type words on such matters as internet speculation / gossip.

Those type of warnings seem to be making the rounds in sermons these days.

Yeah, because the worst thing possible to happen is to have a congregation that is aware and asking questions! :

The worst thing is for people to gossip about things they nothing about...and I heard with my own ears OC tell his congregation if you have any questions, ask any deacon, pastor staff or himself. I really think a true understanding of the fact that both of these families seem to be apart of affiliated with LBC should be considered...

A wife and 5 children have lost heir husband and he took someone else's life... grace and love is needed not gossip and harshness...for both families.

Here's hoping the leadership of that church has the same concern for the families involved as you have expressed here.  That being said, you cannot expect people to trust a leadership that has failed them over and over again...it's not so simply because someone in leadership within the church with the problems says it's so.

I have no problem with your statement at all.
But, I have also had to deal with church members and in one instance a staff member who engaged in sinful lifestyles and things aren't always cut and dry so to speak. And there are innocent family members that you must consider when dealing with such issues.

I have no dog in the fight, but haven't seen anything at this point to make me a conspiracy theorist as to the church's response. But it will eventually all come out in the wash....

I too have no dog in the fight...I too believe we should always be concerned for the impact of things on the family of victims.  My point as I do not know all the specifics of this incident goes back to church leaders warning their people about being on websites and only trusting what their leadership gives them from a limited perspective.  If one doesn't trust the leadership, why would they only ask them for the view of the things that are going on.  The problem in many churches is the lack of leadership with integrity or the lack of trust in leadership for a lot of reasons.

The part in bold 14pt. is the problem we have had at FBCH since the 70s.

In those days it was not the websites but the Hammond Times news paper and national TV.

They ran story after story about FBCH. We were told from the pulpit that the paper was full of lies, TV lies.

When George Godfrey wrote his letter pleading with JH to come clean, he was demonized.

excerpts from GG letter.

http://jeriwho.blogspot.com/2004/04/good-enough-to-post-see-below-for.html

We were told to be sure we did not read the gossip.

We were to shun the attacks of Satan.

I do not believe they were attacks of Satan at all.

They were the pleadings of Christian brothers to clean up our mess.

Here is a letter from CH. Can you imagine if this was floating around FBCH in the 90s.

Page 1
http://bju.typepad.com/Hutson/hutson1.pdf

Page2
http://bju.typepad.com/Hutson/hutson2.pdf

CH gives a good summery of IFBx philosophy. It is still in effect to this day IMHO.

This quote is from number 2 of the letter and is a succinct paragraph on all that was wrong at FBCH for years and by extension the IFB denomination in particular.

Hutson said, "First Baptist Church has decided not to discipline Dr. Hyles".

What he should have said was, "Dr. Hyles decided not to discipline Dr. Hyles".

Point number 3 of the letter is the old ends justifies the means, situation ethics.

Yes total coverup with no repentance and no getting right with God or man.

We did not listen to our Christian brothers or non Christians.

We denied and denied and demonized the messengers.

Nischik basically was right.

Sumner basically was right.

Godfrey basically was right.

Glover basically was right.

Kaifetz basically was right.

You may find some small details that are wrong but they are very minor. Like Linda Hyles Murphrey's details.

She has the overall picture correct. She is very credible. When you add her to all the others they are totally

irrefutable.

Is that what is going on at LBC? There are hundreds of us at FBCH that realize we have been burned bad.

My coverup detector is just wondering.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Hmmmm. Here at FBC Hammond, if I am not mistaken, Paul Chappell has been invited to speak sometime this coming year. A lot of announcements were verbally made about upcoming conferences, events. I am fairly certain PC was mentioned, because the church's radio program carries a daily message from Paul Chappell and that was referenced as well.


I might add also, we were strongly admonished in last nightt's sermon to avoid these internet sites / discussions. No mention of this particular situation, but just a general "avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it and pass away. Do not speak of it, do not open your mouth or type words on such matters as internet speculation / gossip.

Those type of warnings seem to be making the rounds in sermons these days.

Yeah, because the worst thing possible to happen is to have a congregation that is aware and asking questions! :

No, because the internet is the worst place for dis-information and conclusion jumping. Just observe the comments so far. "Must be a cover up" "All them IFB'ers are the same" Paul Chappell = Jack Scaap"

The biblical pattern for handling problems is inside the local church, not on the FFF. Here the conclusion is "Since Paul Chappell didn't start the thread himself, he lacks transparency."

I am not naive, no one simply takes an extra oxy and committs murder suicide, but on the other hand, I hope the widow never reads these posts. Or that the children don't get curious some years from now and read what many of you have hashed and trashed and spewed willy nilly all over cyber space.

And I nkow, I nkow some of you will claim "we weren't talking about the individual involved, we were talking about Paul Chappel, but still, shame on many of you. The un-Christ like spirit is all over this place.

Flame away oh self righteous hypocrites, flame away.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Actually Paul Chappell and the church are not the ones who are handling this, but the local sheriff's dept. And silence has never helped detectives solve crimes or determine motives.

We are not to blame for the widow's grief. LBC keeps using that tactic to shut people up.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Those making allegations of sexual molestation at Lancaster Baptist School also need to report it to the sheriff's dept directly and NOT try to handle this through the church.

 

[ItinerantPreacher]

Actually Paul Chappell and the church are not the ones who are handling this, but the local sheriff's dept. And silence has never helped detectives solve crimes or determine motives.

We are not to blame for the widow's grief. LBC keeps using that tactic to shut people up.

If you are reponding to my post, I never suggested silence to the police, nor did I suggest a lack of disclosure to the church.

You are wrong however to suggest we are not to blame for the widows grief. While we may not be the primary cause of it, we are compounding it. No amount of hashing here will help the detectives/sherriffs dept. If you have information, go forward. If you live in the area you would be better off to go door to door to known church members and persuade them to step forward if you are so convinced there is a cover up. If not, no amount of hue and cry here will help.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Hmmmm. Here at FBC Hammond, if I am not mistaken, Paul Chappell has been invited to speak sometime this coming year. A lot of announcements were verbally made about upcoming conferences, events. I am fairly certain PC was mentioned, because the church's radio program carries a daily message from Paul Chappell and that was referenced as well.


I might add also, we were strongly admonished in last nightt's sermon to avoid these internet sites / discussions. No mention of this particular situation, but just a general "avoid it, pass not by it, turn from it and pass away. Do not speak of it, do not open your mouth or type words on such matters as internet speculation / gossip.

Those type of warnings seem to be making the rounds in sermons these days.

Yeah, because the worst thing possible to happen is to have a congregation that is aware and asking questions! :

No, because the internet is the worst place for dis-information and conclusion jumping. Just observe the comments so far. "Must be a cover up" "All them IFB'ers are the same" Paul Chappell = Jack Scaap"

The biblical pattern for handling problems is inside the local church, not on the FFF. Here the conclusion is "Since Paul Chappell didn't start the thread himself, he lacks transparency."

I am not naive, no one simply takes an extra oxy and committs murder suicide, but on the other hand, I hope the widow never reads these posts. Or that the children don't get curious some years from now and read what many of you have hashed and trashed and spewed willy nilly all over cyber space.

And I nkow, I nkow some of you will claim "we weren't talking about the individual involved, we were talking about Paul Chappel, but still, shame on many of you. The un-Christ like spirit is all over this place.

Flame away oh self righteous hypocrites, flame away.

I refer to the above in bold and 14pt.

I respectfully disagree with you.

IMHO the worst place for disinformation is sitting in the pew of an IFB church hearing an IFB pastor spread

disinformation and lies to protect himself.

I watched this happen personally.

The internet is a good place to find information that those IFB pastors are covering up.

The internet has a cleansing effect on the body of Christ. It acts as a disinfectant and gives a path for truth to

make it to those who should know.

Informed Christians can then practice rebuking those who are sinning.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

I refer to the above in bold and 14pt.

I respectfully disagree with you.

IMHO the worst place for disinformation is sitting in the pew of an IFB church hearing an IFB pastor spread

disinformation and lies to protect himself.

I watched this happen personally.

The internet is a good place to find information that those IFB pastors are covering up.

The internet has a cleansing effect on the body of Christ. It acts as a disinfectant and gives a path for truth to

make it to those who should know.

Informed Christians can then practice rebuking those who are sinning.

Exactly.

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Another post from the AV Times site (almost 600 posts there now). People are frustrated by the lack of information:

Heartbrokenjustasking

January 27, 2014 at 4:34 pm


Yes I agree , I think multiple gun shots and (premeditation-knowing victim would be at that area) signals RAGE = OVERKILL this is so not cool and seems to be more than a simple dispute. So question? “Motive?” What was it? And why isn’t anyone saying a definitive yes or no to the question on an affair? or had the shooter (killer) just lost his mind? I know drugs can make people wacky but taking out your best friend because your on pain killers? I don’t think so unless he’s your supplier? This just sounds as if the man (shooter) was in more pain than his shoulder. Praying for Families and yes as a former member I would like truths too because my adult child used to be under the care of Shooter in church many years ago (my child is now an adult) and this whole thing sickens me… what the heck happened? If they were Gay, nobody is throwing a stone at them, especially the victim. But Motive I just wish more was known. Because this guy….not only hurt the victim, his family and his (shooter) own family …he has hurt many young people that were under his leadership and has a whole bunch of us questioning leadership in our local churches? This is not just private issue because Jeremy Whitman made it through his actions everyone’s business. So if your out there and you have answers- say something to the police- here on this message board help us all lay this to rest

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Another post from the AV Times:

Jenni

January 22, 2014 at 7:03 am


Lancaster Baptist church only “cares” about you when you’re doing exactly what they want you to do. Once you “leave the church” (as they call it), they gossip about you, shun you, give you dirty looks, etc. Lancaster Baptist members are NOT very Christ-like. They knew Jeremy needed help, but instead of offering that, as Christ would have, they took the pious, holier-than-thou route. Sad and DISGUSTING. Jeremy was obviously in so much pain. And he was alone. Paul Chappell and the entire staff will be answering for this one day. It’s all about money, power, and control for them. They have no genuine compassion or care for people. RIP Jeremy. My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the victim. To lose someone you love in such a way is just tragic.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Has Chappell or the church done something to cause this or know about something criminal they are covering up?

I'm not familiar at all with what is or has transpired in this sad situation.
I've not been able to find anything sinister involving the church...which doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but does anyone know of any evidence of such?

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

Depends if they knew about those alleged child molestation allegations but did nothing about it. There have been rather hostile messages left for those who posted about it on the AV Times site.

There are still too many unanswered questions regarding Jeremy to know if any laws were broken. Now ethical/civil issues - I personally suspect (IMHO, of course). If Jeremy had suffered from a mental illness he would have been discouraged from seeking real help since Chappell denies that even exists, claiming they are spiritual  issues. And forbidding staff/members from reaching out to him - unconscionable.

As for the murder of the 14 year old member, having the church be hush-hush was not helpful to the investigation. I am afraid the same stuff is happening now. Hush-hush...sweep, sweep, sweep
Seems to be their M.O. IMHO

 

[Bruh]

Depends if they knew about those alleged child molestation allegations but did nothing about it. There have been rather hostile messages left for those who posted about it on the AV Times site.

There are still too many unanswered questions regarding Jeremy to know if any laws were broken. Now ethical/civil issues - I personally suspect (IMHO, of course). If Jeremy had suffered from a mental illness he would have been discouraged from seeking real help since Chappell denies that even exists, claiming they are spiritual  issues. And forbidding staff/members from reaching out to him - unconscionable.

As for the murder of the 14 year old member, having the church be hush-hush was not helpful to the investigation. I am afraid the same stuff is happening now. Hush-hush...sweep, sweep, sweep
Seems to be their M.O. IMHO

I am not taking sides.  I do have a question though, if you know this stuff to be true, shouldn't you go to the police and re-open the case?  Because, if I knew of something like this, I would feel obligated to at least make a statement to the proper authorities.  And I'm not talking about church members but the legal authorities. 

 

[AmazedbyGrace]

I completely agree. Those who have been molested need to report it directly to the police and I have encouraged them to do it. Someone else even posted the number for the child abuse section of the Sheriff's dept. to help direct them to the right dept.

If any of the victims had reported it to the church or school and it was not reported to the police, it would potentially be criminal since they are mandatory reporters. In house investigations do not cut it. Having David Gibbs investigate does not cut it either.  This has been a really common problem in IFBx churches (Hyles, Trinity, NVBC, etc.). Take it directly to the police, always!

Here are some of the posts I was referring to (also note some folks don't even trust the local Sheriffs because of their affiliation with LBC - wow):


Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:17 pm


By all means report it now! Call the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station at 661-948-8466! Tell them you need to speak to a child abuse detective. Children are in danger! You can report from a distance!

People don’t realize that current state law allows for the extension of the statute of limitations all the way back to incidents that occurred in the 1980′s! That teacher can and should go to jail!!

Save another child and please call in a report!

***************************************************************

hands are tied

January 22, 2014 at 12:23 pm


Don’t report it to the Lancaster Sheriff’s Station. Most of them go to that church and I guarantee you justice will not be served.

It will be swept under the carpet.

If you want real justice report it to the State law enforcement agencies.

Sorry, let me clarify…. that is “a lot” not most…

*********************************************************************

Dosomething

January 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm


Ok, if that’s the concern, call the LASD Child Abuse Unit in L.A. directly at 562-946-8531. No church affiliation there! BUT CALL!

 

[Mamabella]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

After Chappell was publicly kicked around he posted about giving the victim's family assistance.

http://www.paulchappell.com/.../an-update-on-the.../

The will be holding some kind of memorial for church members during tomorrow's Sunday night church service...is that even remotely appropriate? At a regular church service?

a

I still don't get it.  Why is there only one sentence dedicated to the church member who was murdered?

PC now proclaims that JW left employment, family, his whole world, because he was on a prescription drug after a surgery?  ???  I know first hand that those things can make you goofy, but........

I still cry foul.

 

[Holy Mole]

Have you ever personally known anyone who became seriously addicted to prescription pain medication? I have, and have seen people do insane, illegal, immoral,  extremely desperate things to get another fix and turn into people you wouldn't even recognize anymore. There's a big difference between "taking a few pain pills" and becoming seriously, physically addicted to them. I know a couple people who have become addicted after taking them for a legitimate injury and subsequently died of an accidental overdose, as well.

After Chappell was publicly kicked around he posted about giving the victim's family assistance.

http://www.paulchappell.com/.../an-update-on-the.../

The will be holding some kind of memorial for church members during tomorrow's Sunday night church service...is that even remotely appropriate? At a regular church service?

a

I still don't get it.  Why is there only one sentence dedicated to the church member who was murdered?

PC now proclaims that JW left employment, family, his whole world, because he was on a prescription drug after a surgery?  ???  I know first hand that those things can make you goofy, but........

I still cry foul.

Yes, I've known people who have done crazy things to feed their habit like stealing other people's, or money to buy it, and such like but hardly an excuse for murder. How old was this alleged addiction?

..a few months?

Nice try. Not buying it!