Jeremy Whitman Lancaster Baptist Church Does anyone know anything about this?
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In my opinion, if PC and LBC (and all of us) are guilty of anything, it is this:
They do not want anyone to realize that anything could be wrong in paradise.
No one wants the world or other Christians to realize that something like this could happen in their realm of Christianity.
Now, before you get too self righteous, it's the same reason many couples do not go and get marital counsel from the pastor or anyone else inside (or outside) the church for that matter. (I'm talking about getting counsel from people you know, even outside the church)
You wouldn't want anyone to know that there is trouble in your own little paradise.
It's the same reason why many people take a blind eye to the issues going on with their children...
They don't want to believe that there could actually be trouble with their own family members, after all, you raised them, how COULD they go bad?
It's the same reason many pastors don't get help with problems in their own marriages/families and churches...
It all has to do with one word:
PRIDE.
I realize (as others have said) there are other issues that have driven PC & LBC's reactions, but what I have just said happens far too often in churches and personal lives, I have seen it and unfortunately been a part of it too many times.
They do not want anyone to realize that anything could be wrong in paradise.
No one wants the world or other Christians to realize that something like this could happen in their realm of Christianity.
Now, before you get too self righteous, it's the same reason many couples do not go and get marital counsel from the pastor or anyone else inside (or outside) the church for that matter. (I'm talking about getting counsel from people you know, even outside the church)
You wouldn't want anyone to know that there is trouble in your own little paradise.
It's the same reason why many people take a blind eye to the issues going on with their children...
They don't want to believe that there could actually be trouble with their own family members, after all, you raised them, how COULD they go bad?
It's the same reason many pastors don't get help with problems in their own marriages/families and churches...
It all has to do with one word:
PRIDE.
I realize (as others have said) there are other issues that have driven PC & LBC's reactions, but what I have just said happens far too often in churches and personal lives, I have seen it and unfortunately been a part of it too many times.
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16KJV11 said:
Yes, yes, yes and AMEN!!!!!!
Why do we claim to be imperfect sinners in need a Savior and then hide our imperfections from the very people God put in our lives to help us? Living a lie like that is being the whited sepulchers Jesus talked about.
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16KJV11 said:
Well said.
You nailed it.
Pride is and always had been the issue.
It has been the problem at FBCH since we started going for the Biggest, Greatest, Bestest, Mostest, well you
get it.
bgwilkinson said:
Along with the most fundamental, the most separated, the most old fashioned...
R
Roy Payne
Guest
I keep getting on this site because it has been the best of several I've logged on to. But I'm tired of the groundless accusations & people trying to destroy a man I believe to be among the most godly I've ever known & the best church I've ever been connected with. All done with no more evidence than "This is what happened at my church, therefore it must be happening at Lancaster Baptist." (and every other IFB pastor & IFB church anywhere). Or people claiming "My child was sexually abused at LBC." yet they've done nothing about it.
Seriously? If my child were abused, my reaction might well involve firearms, but assuming the Holy Spirit would get ahold of me before I could do so, it would definitely result in bruises to the body of the perp. At the very LEAST, it would be reported & become a matter of public record. I would sell my home to hire an attorney who would shout it from the housetops & get it proclaimed from every media outlet.
Speaking of the media, those haters of all things Christian seem to have concluded that there is nothing to report. With their ability to ferret out the smallest of clues, still this story has not even managed to garner the attention of the L.A. media outlets, much less the national attack dogs who would love to savage Bro. Chappell and LBC.
BUT, the reason I keep coming back to this site is in the hope of finding out what really happened between Jeremy Whitman & Erik Ungerman.
Has anyone heard anything concrete? Any toxicology reports made public? Any police files that have been released?
As many have said, we may never know. But I hope the truth does come to light because for reasons I can't explain & don't even understand, I want to know. For my own peace of mind, I need to know.
Seriously? If my child were abused, my reaction might well involve firearms, but assuming the Holy Spirit would get ahold of me before I could do so, it would definitely result in bruises to the body of the perp. At the very LEAST, it would be reported & become a matter of public record. I would sell my home to hire an attorney who would shout it from the housetops & get it proclaimed from every media outlet.
Speaking of the media, those haters of all things Christian seem to have concluded that there is nothing to report. With their ability to ferret out the smallest of clues, still this story has not even managed to garner the attention of the L.A. media outlets, much less the national attack dogs who would love to savage Bro. Chappell and LBC.
BUT, the reason I keep coming back to this site is in the hope of finding out what really happened between Jeremy Whitman & Erik Ungerman.
Has anyone heard anything concrete? Any toxicology reports made public? Any police files that have been released?
As many have said, we may never know. But I hope the truth does come to light because for reasons I can't explain & don't even understand, I want to know. For my own peace of mind, I need to know.
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Your Pastor friend lied, on purpose, by habit, to control perception.
This, of course, on the heels of his book, telling all of his peers not to do the same.
Bout makes him the biggest hypocrite we know of, for the present time. It will simmer down.
It just reminds us of Dave Hyles' Dad writing "How to Rear Teens" and finding out that Hophni was whore-hopping all the teeny honeys he get get his paws on at the same time.
Anishinaabe
This, of course, on the heels of his book, telling all of his peers not to do the same.
Bout makes him the biggest hypocrite we know of, for the present time. It will simmer down.
It just reminds us of Dave Hyles' Dad writing "How to Rear Teens" and finding out that Hophni was whore-hopping all the teeny honeys he get get his paws on at the same time.
Anishinaabe
Roy Payne said:
I think you are completely wrong in your perception of Chappell and his kingdom, but it is your life...Due to the excessive submission demanded of the kids at LBS, I totally believe the place provides the perfect situation for an abuser to flourish...and these are not the only two reports ever to come out. There are many reason kids do not come forward and report abuse...that is why the statute of limitations in CA allows for cases going back to the 1980's to be prosecuted.
The toxicology reports will not be available for about 6 weeks. Autopsies are public record, but if the press does not wish to publish Jeremy's it will not be publicized. You can request a copy yourself, if you desire to.
prophet said:
*post of the day*
Hi All,
I am not new to many of you. I used to post on the old FF. I have not been around for a while because I have lived in Singapore for the last 6 years. Here my wife is a lawyer and I teach Literature at a Christian school.
I was a classmate and friend of Jeremy’s at WCBC. I knew him and his family well. Thus, when I heard about these events I was, and still am, shocked! I have thought a lot about things lately. As many of you know, the 7 years I spent at LBC and WCBC were not very happy ones for me. I guess that is why now, after all these years, when I think of Jeremy he is still clear in my memories. In the IFB world that does not look too brightly upon genuine humor I always thought that Jeremy was too goofy to be so well thought of at LBC/WCBC. As others have mentioned here and on the other articles, I always thought he was above the garbage of the IFB movement. I guess I was wrong on that account.
The whole situation at large reminds me so much of my experience there. Many people have asked me if I ever witnessed any illegal activity at LBC or by Paul Chappell, and the answer is no. However, what I did see was a lot of shady and questionable behavior on the part of PC and the leadership. The funny thing is that PC and the others liked to preach the words of ST. Paul to Timothy about a bishop needed to be blameless, yet it is obvious to anyone who has lived in the AV for a few years that PC is anything but blameless.
Case in point, I was there when JW was ordained as a minister in LBC. He was in fact an assistant pastor and personal attaché to PC. Any member of LBC during that time can testify to this fact. So my question is, why lie about it? Why not just say, “Yes he worked here for many years and decided to leave his job several months ago.†People leave jobs all the time, it is no big deal. Now by fabricating this whole story that he was a “clerical worker†at the church and never a pastor, well it certainly raises questions.
I am not new to many of you. I used to post on the old FF. I have not been around for a while because I have lived in Singapore for the last 6 years. Here my wife is a lawyer and I teach Literature at a Christian school.
I was a classmate and friend of Jeremy’s at WCBC. I knew him and his family well. Thus, when I heard about these events I was, and still am, shocked! I have thought a lot about things lately. As many of you know, the 7 years I spent at LBC and WCBC were not very happy ones for me. I guess that is why now, after all these years, when I think of Jeremy he is still clear in my memories. In the IFB world that does not look too brightly upon genuine humor I always thought that Jeremy was too goofy to be so well thought of at LBC/WCBC. As others have mentioned here and on the other articles, I always thought he was above the garbage of the IFB movement. I guess I was wrong on that account.
The whole situation at large reminds me so much of my experience there. Many people have asked me if I ever witnessed any illegal activity at LBC or by Paul Chappell, and the answer is no. However, what I did see was a lot of shady and questionable behavior on the part of PC and the leadership. The funny thing is that PC and the others liked to preach the words of ST. Paul to Timothy about a bishop needed to be blameless, yet it is obvious to anyone who has lived in the AV for a few years that PC is anything but blameless.
Case in point, I was there when JW was ordained as a minister in LBC. He was in fact an assistant pastor and personal attaché to PC. Any member of LBC during that time can testify to this fact. So my question is, why lie about it? Why not just say, “Yes he worked here for many years and decided to leave his job several months ago.†People leave jobs all the time, it is no big deal. Now by fabricating this whole story that he was a “clerical worker†at the church and never a pastor, well it certainly raises questions.
nib1066 said:
Welcome back, NIB1066! I hope all in going well for you in Singapore.
I also was there for Jeremy's ordination and witnessed him working in a pastoral role. There is just no denying that. And those 628 comments in the AV Times certainly do show the reputation of the church is NOT very good in the community. I personally know they have been knick-named "The Compound" for years.
A comment from a former WCBC on a blog. I am not in agreement that Jeremy was being a whistleblower...not enough evidence for that. But I do wonder if years of cognitive dissonance and high pressure just made him snap. We might never know.
wcbc_grad says:
January 30, 2014 at 11:31 pm
I find this very interesting since I graduated from that place. I would be surprised if there wasn’t rampant abuse, corruption and political manipulation behind the scenes. The emotional abuse alone that myself and my family experienced was no doubt indicative of a much more pervasive problems. Eventually all that is covered will be revealed. Knowing Jeremy… basically he was the CEO/Senior Pastor’s bit** (exec assistant). If he was planning on being a whistleblower there would no doubt be much to lose on LBC/WCBC’s part with what he might reveal.
http://biblemadness.com/2014/01/23/lancaster-baptist-church-sunday-school-teacher-commits-drive-by-suicide/
wcbc_grad says:
January 30, 2014 at 11:31 pm
I find this very interesting since I graduated from that place. I would be surprised if there wasn’t rampant abuse, corruption and political manipulation behind the scenes. The emotional abuse alone that myself and my family experienced was no doubt indicative of a much more pervasive problems. Eventually all that is covered will be revealed. Knowing Jeremy… basically he was the CEO/Senior Pastor’s bit** (exec assistant). If he was planning on being a whistleblower there would no doubt be much to lose on LBC/WCBC’s part with what he might reveal.
http://biblemadness.com/2014/01/23/lancaster-baptist-church-sunday-school-teacher-commits-drive-by-suicide/
Another post from the A V Times article...BTW, why are people (staff probably) being asked to sign non-disclosures? What about this alleged transparency?
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Been there
January 29, 2014 at 12:34 am
LBC members.
I know that most of you love your church, your pastor and your church family you have prayed, served, and have faithfully supported the “ministry†with your tithes and offerings, in addition you have sacrificed to build numerous buildings. Your life is centered on the church, your friends, your social life and employment may be there. In the IFB circles, you are looked up to, after all you facilities are beautiful, and your pastor is charismatic and sought after in your circles. You may even enjoy the perceived prestige of attending LBC. I get it, I’ve been there.
Paul Chappell and the leadership at LBC does not allow the church members to see the way things are orchestrated, they make a concerted effort to display the image that will benefit them the most. There is a system in place that is genius, The Pastoral staff know full well the type of person Paul Chappell is, they have firsthand experience, if the say that he is a great man, they are either lying or not equipped to know what constitutes a great man. The others are also aware of the goings on but the pastoral staff is convinces them that they should obey the leadership citing that they may not understand how ministry works , they teach the “umbrella†principle, meaning if you follow leadership you are under the umbrella of protection and in the will of God.
I don’t fault you for defending the pastor and ministry you love but you should be careful with your zeal, it may be counter-productive because as much as you zealously defend him Paul Chappell knows that there is information out there that can be served up to expose him. Our family was totally blindsided, we thought we were in the best church, with the best pastor and the best church family, we discovered that we were deceived and that was not fair to us. My heart’s desire has been an acknowledgement of wrong doing by LBC but instead Chappell and others have chosen to write blogs denouncing the very actions that they are guilty of as if they had not fully participated in those very actions. My desire is total exposure, not just for the sake of exposure but for the members to have in a choice in deciding if this is the kind of person they want as a pastor. If you know the truth and still want to be a part of that ministry then you have a fair and true choice.
Someone mentioned that the finances are subject to an outside audit that is not true. You may get a “compilation†from an outside company which simply means that they compile a report based on the information provided to them by the church. An audit is done when the auditors come in and track every transaction. The proof is the fact that one of your deacons embezzled thousands of dollars, do some research to see how it was discovered. The next time you get a “financial statement†notice that the numbers are summarized in such a way that it is pretty meaningless to the average person. I promise you that you could not identify salaries and benefits.
Those of us that have escaped, we should continue to speak the truth, Jesus does not need us to protect Him, contrary we honor or Christ by speaking the truth. In addition, if you were coerced into signing a non disclosure, please know that it is not valid, non disclosures do not cover wrong doing I could say so much more but I will end with a quote from Paul Chappell.
“A man persuaded against his will, is un-persuaded still.â€
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Been there
January 29, 2014 at 12:34 am
LBC members.
I know that most of you love your church, your pastor and your church family you have prayed, served, and have faithfully supported the “ministry†with your tithes and offerings, in addition you have sacrificed to build numerous buildings. Your life is centered on the church, your friends, your social life and employment may be there. In the IFB circles, you are looked up to, after all you facilities are beautiful, and your pastor is charismatic and sought after in your circles. You may even enjoy the perceived prestige of attending LBC. I get it, I’ve been there.
Paul Chappell and the leadership at LBC does not allow the church members to see the way things are orchestrated, they make a concerted effort to display the image that will benefit them the most. There is a system in place that is genius, The Pastoral staff know full well the type of person Paul Chappell is, they have firsthand experience, if the say that he is a great man, they are either lying or not equipped to know what constitutes a great man. The others are also aware of the goings on but the pastoral staff is convinces them that they should obey the leadership citing that they may not understand how ministry works , they teach the “umbrella†principle, meaning if you follow leadership you are under the umbrella of protection and in the will of God.
I don’t fault you for defending the pastor and ministry you love but you should be careful with your zeal, it may be counter-productive because as much as you zealously defend him Paul Chappell knows that there is information out there that can be served up to expose him. Our family was totally blindsided, we thought we were in the best church, with the best pastor and the best church family, we discovered that we were deceived and that was not fair to us. My heart’s desire has been an acknowledgement of wrong doing by LBC but instead Chappell and others have chosen to write blogs denouncing the very actions that they are guilty of as if they had not fully participated in those very actions. My desire is total exposure, not just for the sake of exposure but for the members to have in a choice in deciding if this is the kind of person they want as a pastor. If you know the truth and still want to be a part of that ministry then you have a fair and true choice.
Someone mentioned that the finances are subject to an outside audit that is not true. You may get a “compilation†from an outside company which simply means that they compile a report based on the information provided to them by the church. An audit is done when the auditors come in and track every transaction. The proof is the fact that one of your deacons embezzled thousands of dollars, do some research to see how it was discovered. The next time you get a “financial statement†notice that the numbers are summarized in such a way that it is pretty meaningless to the average person. I promise you that you could not identify salaries and benefits.
Those of us that have escaped, we should continue to speak the truth, Jesus does not need us to protect Him, contrary we honor or Christ by speaking the truth. In addition, if you were coerced into signing a non disclosure, please know that it is not valid, non disclosures do not cover wrong doing I could say so much more but I will end with a quote from Paul Chappell.
“A man persuaded against his will, is un-persuaded still.â€
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Again, I ask; is their proof that Chappell or the church has done something to cause this or know about something criminal they are covering up?
I'm not familiar at all with what is or has transpired in this sad situation.
I've not been able to find anything sinister involving the church...which doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but does anyone know of any evidence of such?
I'm not familiar at all with what is or has transpired in this sad situation.
I've not been able to find anything sinister involving the church...which doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but does anyone know of any evidence of such?
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I think a pattern is beginning to emerge that many of us have witnessed in the past.
Where there is smoke, there is fire, even when you don't see the fire.
Where there is smoke, there is fire, even when you don't see the fire.
Tarheel Baptist said:
There is no evidence or proof...just innuendo. I think it is a sad situation and all the noise just makes it harder for both of these families to try to heal. We should spend the time used to criticize in prayer for these two families.
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wtyson said:
Wow. This is what people were saying in the 70s and 80s while JH and DH were being immoral.
There weren't that many pictures, but there were many that were speaking out.
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Tarheel Baptist said:
No. There is no proof of any such heinous action. If there is such action, and there is proof, it has been bought, buried or brushed away.
However, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors being put into use by PC and his crew. This has many like us pondering......why?
Inference is just that. We don't know and it is quite useless to speculate. However, those of us who have been through these things before are encouraging those going through it to get to the root of the matter. IF anyone actually does, they may or may not choose to share. The actual why would be interesting for us, sure. But the real reason we are "Raising a stink" is to encourage people to not be sheeple.
As for me, my goal is not vindication, but warning. Reminds me of a poem: An old man came to chasm deep and wide........ 8)
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wtyson said:
Healing can only be found once the bold truth has been accepted, bold repentance for false following, response or behavior has been made, bold forgiveness has been given and bold love is expressed. We are simply encouraging people to ask for the bold, hurtful truth, so that they can find true healing.
R
Roy Payne
Guest
As wtyson said, "There is no evidence or proof ... only innuendo." Virtually everything negative said on this site is unsupported. Unloving people with attitudes of spite & sarcasm. Disgruntled former LBC members or unhappy past WCBC students. Those who had a bad experience in another IFB church & now they can only see all IFB churches through those tainted lenses.
A lot of, "I know things ..." without saying specifically WHAT you know. And "I know someone who was ..." But like the "telephone game" of childhood, the last retelling bears little or no resemblance to the first. No one is offering dates/times of actual wrongdoing. There are no multiple witnesses in agreement (II Cor. 13:1 & Mark 14:55-59). No pictures, no transcripts of meetings, no recordings & no police reports. Not a single, solitary shred of evidence that would bear the inquiry of a person who seeks only the Truth, much less anything that would stand up in a court of law.
All I have seen are a bunch of people, cloaked with the anonymity afforded them by the internet, who are free to say anything their personal prejudices or desires lead them to say, with no accountability whatsoever.
Nothing said has been supported by tangible, irrefutable fact. Hearsay, conjecture, gossip, and a desire to tear down an IFB pastor simply because he IS an IFB pastor. Your bias is screaming, it's so virulent and so mean-spirited.
As a pastor myself, it reminds me of three things:
#1. It doesn't have to be true to damage my reputation & that of my church.
#2. My reputation & that of my church belong to God & He is more than able to uphold us.
#3. Matthew 5:10-12 and John 15:20-21. I'm sure Brother Paul & the staff at LBC are resting in these passages and I, for one, will pray that the Lord will "keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee, because he trusteth in Thee". Isaiah 26:3
A lot of, "I know things ..." without saying specifically WHAT you know. And "I know someone who was ..." But like the "telephone game" of childhood, the last retelling bears little or no resemblance to the first. No one is offering dates/times of actual wrongdoing. There are no multiple witnesses in agreement (II Cor. 13:1 & Mark 14:55-59). No pictures, no transcripts of meetings, no recordings & no police reports. Not a single, solitary shred of evidence that would bear the inquiry of a person who seeks only the Truth, much less anything that would stand up in a court of law.
All I have seen are a bunch of people, cloaked with the anonymity afforded them by the internet, who are free to say anything their personal prejudices or desires lead them to say, with no accountability whatsoever.
Nothing said has been supported by tangible, irrefutable fact. Hearsay, conjecture, gossip, and a desire to tear down an IFB pastor simply because he IS an IFB pastor. Your bias is screaming, it's so virulent and so mean-spirited.
As a pastor myself, it reminds me of three things:
#1. It doesn't have to be true to damage my reputation & that of my church.
#2. My reputation & that of my church belong to God & He is more than able to uphold us.
#3. Matthew 5:10-12 and John 15:20-21. I'm sure Brother Paul & the staff at LBC are resting in these passages and I, for one, will pray that the Lord will "keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee, because he trusteth in Thee". Isaiah 26:3