JERUSALEM is not the sole proprietorship of ISRAEL

[Route_70]

When you give your property back to the Apache, we'll pay attention.

By this you agree that what was done to the indigenous people was a travesty, which can never be undone.

 

[FSSL]

So...

God told the Israelites that He gave them the land -- and they have a lot of it.
The Israelites continue to inhabit the land -- and have for millennia.
The Israelites won a decisive victory in 1967 to further secure themselves as a nation.

... and Route wants us to believe the land was reserved for some people who must live there because their DNA doesn't allow them to live anywhere else and only a certain DNA type is allowed to live in Jerusalem.

 

[biscuit1953]

The Old Testament prophets proclaimed that one day the Jews would to back to their homeland never to be driven out again. That started in 1948 and is continuing in 2017,  I would rather believe the prophets and my lying eyes than you.

Ah, the Old Testament prophets ...

Can you not reference anything from Paul or Peter or John or James or any of the NT writers who would concur with this?  Why, when preachers preach on end time prophecy, do they only reference Ezekiel or Daniel -- never Paul or Peter?

Why do Jesus and Paul denigrate the Jews of their day?

The apostle Paul considered himself to be a Hebrew of the Hebrews but in Romans 11 he acknowledged that God had blinded their eyes for a period of time to graft in the Gentiles.  That however, is only temporary.  Has God cast away His people?  God forbid!  Their blindness is only in part.  They will eventually turn to the Messiah they had crucified.

 

[T-Bone]

This whole thread's theme is idiotic...Let's see Israel is a sovereign nation, Jerusalem is in the sovereign nation of Israel, Israel chooses Jerusalem as its capitol...so Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel.  No other nation tells us which city is our countries capitol...nor should they Israel or any other sovereign nation.

Israel is a sovereign nation.  There is no denying it.  But is should not be so.  The declaration of Independance made by the Zionists in 1948 on the day the British left, followed within minutes by an official recognition by the U.S., was a travesty.  There were people already living there; and for someone else to go in and claim the land as theirs was illegal according to international law at the time.

Israel's continual occupation of Palestinian territory is a violation of the Geneva Convention and violates international law.

As to the theme and purpose of this post, I am showing how wrong is the argument made by Christians that the State of Israel has a right to exist because the land was given to them, when God made a promise to Abraham regarding his seed.  The "seed" referred to in Genesis was Jesus, according to Paul, as I have shown from Galatians.

It is though, so your argument is moot.

 

[Twisted]

When you give your property back to the Apache, we'll pay attention.

By this you agree that what was done to the indigenous people was a travesty, which can never be undone.

I'm not agreeing to anything.  I'm just trying to help you in your misery.

 

[Ransom]

How?

If you don't know what land is given to the Jews in the Bible, then you have no way of knowing that "nowhere in the Bible" does it say the land they currently occupy is. Therefore, when you said so, you lied.

 

[biscuit1953]

If you think what President Trump did today by acknowledging Jerusalem as the official capital of Israel is causing waves,  wait until they start rebuilding the Temple!  God is in control and prophecy will be fulfilled in His time.

 

[Route_70]

How?

If you don't know what land is given to the Jews in the Bible, then you have no way of knowing that "nowhere in the Bible" does it say the land they currently occupy is. Therefore, when you said so, you lied.

This kind of comment you make is why Vince calls you a "scorner."  If someone's comment does not conform to your idea of what a comment should be, than you label that person as a "liar."  That is the reason I posted the meme of Pee Wee Herman: "I know you are, but what I am?"  It is a sophomoric attempt on your part to invoke a childish response.

You are an admin of this forum, and as such have a certain amount of control over posters.  But undersand this:  to me you are no more than a sophomore.  This is the only and last time I shall ever engage you in conversation.

 

[Route_70]

wait until they start rebuilding the Temple!

I won't hold my breath.

 

[T-Bone]

And it is done...thank you President Trump!  BTW he is only fulfilling what the Democrats have put in their own platform in the last four conventions. http://freebeacon.com/politics/last-four-democratic-party-platforms-called-jerusalem-capital-israel/

 

[Ransom]

This kind of comment you make is why Vince calls you a "scorner."

In that case, I will wear the badge with pride.

If someone's comment does not conform to your idea of what a comment should be

I suggest you look up argumentum ad ignorantiam before you double down on your use of one.

But undersand this:  to me you are no more than a sophomore.

Good thing I'm not a snowflake, or my feelings would be really, really hurt.

 

[Saved by Grace]

Thankfully Jesus will not have push this through the courts systems of man to get his land reassignment passed.....

The Millennium is going to be great as liberalism finds out what real redistribution of wealth looks like.

... and nowhere in the Bible is the land currently occupied by the State of Israel given to the "descendants" of Abraham, namely the Jews.

(Gen 15:18)  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

The land promised to Israel is found in Genesis 15:18 and Ezekiel 48:1-29. Reading these verses you find that the land given to Abraham from God extends from the River of Egypt to the Great River Euphrates. From Hamath, near Damascus, to Kadesh in the south.  This has has never been fulfilled yet.

Joshua 21:43-45 is not the Abrahamic land promise from ?the river of Egypt (Nile) to the Euphrates? (Gen15:18).  The nation under Joshua never occupied this complete territory.  The land promised to the ?fathers? alludes to the promise made to Moses (Deut 11:24) and referred to land taken by conquest (Josh 1:3). 

Isa 11:11  And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

It is clear in the context that the first gathering was the exodus from Egypt (Ex 14:26-29) which is the only one that would make sense to Isaiah?s generation.  Also notice that the Jews are to come not from the ?East,? as when they returned from the Babylonian Captivity, but from the ?four corners of the earth? (Isa 11:12).  See also Jeremiah 16:14,15

The Jews have been restored but once, and that was from Babylon.  The march from Egypt to Canaan was not a "restoration" because the land had never been in their possession before, and Palestine was never in possession of the Children of Israel until after its conquest by Joshua.

Amos 9:14  And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amos 9:15  And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

This prophecy was not fulfilled in the restoration from the Babylonian Captivity for they were driven out of the land after that, and this promise is, that they shall no more be pulled out of their land and must refer to some future restoration. 

The regathering officially began in 1948 and will continue until the Second Coming of Christ.  It will be complete after the Battle of Armageddon in Ezekiel 38.  The Jews are outnumbered 100 to 1 and yet every attempt to drive them into the sea has failed and will continue to fail.

 

[Route_70]

And it is done...thank you President Trump!  BTW he is only fulfilling what the Democrats have put in their own platform in the last four conventions. http://freebeacon.com/politics/last-four-democratic-party-platforms-called-jerusalem-capital-israel/

What has President Trump done that is so different from what every President since Clinton has done?  Trump signed the six-month waiver of the 1995 Congressional Act, which requires the U.S. to relocate its Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

So, nothing has changed.

 

[FSSL]

Ask a radicalized Muslim. They are getting the point clearer than you.

My facebook feed is going crazy with liberals who prefer Palestine over Israel. They understand.

Israel is our ally and must be treated as such.

 

[Route_70]

Ask a radicalized Muslim. They are getting the point clearer than you.

My facebook feed is going crazy with liberals who prefer Palestine over Israel. They understand.

Israel is our ally and must be treated as such.

I understand the significance of what Trump did today -- nothing more than stir a hornets' nest.  Nothing else of substance.  The Palestinians are getting the shaft.

 

[Twisted]

The Palestinians are getting the shaft. 

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian".

 

[Route_70]

So...

God told the Israelites that He gave them the land -- and they have a lot of it.
The Israelites continue to inhabit the land -- and have for millennia.
The Israelites won a decisive victory in 1967 to further secure themselves as a nation.

... and Route wants us to believe the land was reserved for some people who must live there because their DNA doesn't allow them to live anywhere else and only a certain DNA type is allowed to live in Jerusalem.

Despite Palestine having been conquered and occupied numerous times, a very small contingent of Jews have continually occupied Palestine since the Children of Israel invaded there around 1400 BC (give or take).  Because of carefully kept census records kept by the various conquerors of the area, only about 5% of the occupants of Palestine during the intervening years were Jews.  It was only after WW2 that the population swelled, and that with mostly Eastern European Jews of dubious genetic ancestry.  I mention the genetic issue because someone else suggested that all Jews can trace their Middle Eastern ancestry through DNA, which is not true.

 

[FSSL]

I mention the genetic issue because someone else suggested that all Jews can trace their Middle Eastern ancestry through DNA, which is not true.

Someone needs to brush up on Ruth who was not an Israelite.

 

[Route_70]

Someone needs to brush up on Ruth who was not an Israelite.

Yes, and this contributes to the reality that today's "Jews," due to all the intermarriage with those among whom they have lived over the past 3500 years, have no more genetic connection to Abraham than anyone else.

The term "Jew," in its English form, only came into existence around 1000 years ago.  Before that time there was no English language.  Anyone who lived in the Roman province of Judea was called a Judean (in the language of the day), no matter their ancestry.  So, when Paul and referred to the "Jews," he was referencing only those who remained in Judea, who claimed to be members of the tribe of Judah or Benjamin, which was included in the Kingdom of Judah, along with the tribe of Simeon, and whatever Levites had been included.

So, technically, when the New Testament speaks of "Jews," none of the other ten tribes of Israel are meant to be included.

We know that the northern kingdom, referred to as "Israel" disappeared into Assyrian captivity around 722 BC, never to be heard from again.  Most of the citizens of the Kingdom of Judah, which remained, were expelled by Nebuchadnezzar a couple hundred years later.  Of course, they returned under Cyrus, but were eventually and ultimately expelled by the Roman general Titus.

Jerusalem was the capital of the United Kingdom of Israel for only 73 years -- 33 under David, and 40 under Solomon.  After that, Tirzah and then Samaria became the capital of Israel, while Jerusalem remained the capital of Judah.  So, the claim that Jerusalem is the "ancient" capital of Israel is bogus.

All of the prophecies of the OT regarding Jerusalem refer to the New Jerusalem of Revelation.  The OT prophets probably did not realize this, but Paul did.  In Galatians 4:26, Paul referred to "Jerusalem which is above."  He compared current Jerusalem (verse 25 -- "Jerusalem which now is") to Agar and her son Ishmael, the firstborn of Abraham, also among the seed of Abraham, but not heir to the promise.  Paul was pointing out the salient fact that the promise God made to Abraham referred to the New Jerusalem and to Abraham's seed, Jesus, and does not refer to current Jerusalem and anyone who calls himself a "Jew."

"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." -- Galatians 3:29

 

[FSSL]

Yes, and this contributes to the reality that today's "Jews," due to all the intermarriage with those among whom they have lived over the past 3500 years, have no more genetic connection to Abraham than anyone else.

So what?!

You don't understand the book of Ruth, either. What you don't understand is that being an Israelite is not a DNA/genetic issue. A Moabite, Ruth, adopted the national identity and cultural practices of an Israelite. She was the grandmother of an Israelite... King David. Who, by all accounts, was wholly Jewish and a full-fledged Israelite.

Being an Israelite is related to national and cultural identity, not a pure inbreeding.

You said we had no Scripture.
Now you rely on a ridiculous idea of nationality requiring pure DNA.

It seems you are lost in this discussion and don't realize it yet.