Joe Combs and "sheveral vershies"

RAIDER said:
It's hard to believe what a wicked man he was at the same time he was preaching this message.  Sad!
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Of course that's the question I've always wondered about.  Exactly "when" did he start the abuse of his "adopted" child?  This message was preached around 80-81 so I'm not sure of time-line.

Elsa was 22 in 2000 so she would have been 2 in 1980.  I don't believe the abuse started till she was older.  I'd like to think I want to give Combs the benefit of the doubt that he was not hurting this child until after I had his classes.
 
IFB X-Files said:
RAIDER said:
It's hard to believe what a wicked man he was at the same time he was preaching this message.  Sad!
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Of course that's the question I've always wondered about.  Exactly "when" did he start the abuse of his "adopted" child?  This message was preached around 80-81 so I'm not sure of time-line.

Elsa was 22 in 2000 so she would have been 2 in 1980.  I don't believe the abuse started till she was older.  I'd like to think I want to give Combs the benefit of the doubt that he was not hurting this child until after I had his classes.
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Good point.  I had not done the math on that.
 
myeyesareopen said:
What is a New Testament example of someone who lived a 'double life', like the OT men mentioned...you know, the "Do As I Say Not As I Do" types. Don't do the things I've done wrong in my life...but do listen to me when I am speaking the words of the Lord.

Is there anyone like that in the New Testament? Or is Jesus supposed to make a difference in our lives?
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Peter. ;)

[quote author=myeyesareopen]When you get right down to it, what do we really learn from some of those OT guys, except "What not to do." They are good examples of flawed persons. Which is of course what each of us is. But once we hit the NT, when the payment is made and grace is unleashed...it's different. In the New Testament you don't have a philanderer with 1000's of wives being held up as someone to listen to but not emulate...it is different, isn't it?[/quote]

We learn both from the OT. We learn both from the NT.

[quote author=myeyesareopen]Some people are so hung up on the OT -- using it almost as an excuse to be a rotten Christian (yes, I torture and rape my daughter but hey -- I'm one heckuva Bible teacher so it 'evens out' -- I mean, David murdered someone so I didn't go THAT far!) that they think it is an ok model to follow...[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote author=myeyesareopen]To me, in a rather simplistic overview, the OT is God saying: "Without the Perfect Sacrifice and without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, this is the best you are going to do..." And then in the NT, once the Sacrifice is made and the Spirit indwells, we have access to something they did not have in the OT. So it SHOULD make a difference, and we shouldn't excuse ourselves our sins on an OT standard when the NT standard is what is now in place. [/quote]

To be fair, the NT is also saying, "Without the Perfect Sacrifice and without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, this is the best you are going to do..."

[quote author=myeyesareopen]Don't know what I'm trying to say, rambling and musing.[/quote]

:)
 
I have "What you do with the Bible determines what God does with you" wrote in my Bible still today. One day at College he gave me some advice that I wished now I would have listened to.  But this was even before he was even married. I enjoyed his classes. I learned a few things. To this day I find it hard to believe all the things he was convicted of doing. Today I couldn't take his advice or listen to him preach.
 
myeyesareopen said:
What is a New Testament example of someone who lived a 'double life', like the OT men mentioned...you know, the "Do As I Say Not As I Do" types. Don't do the things I've done wrong in my life...but do listen to me when I am speaking the words of the Lord.

Is there anyone like that in the New Testament? Or is Jesus supposed to make a difference in our lives?

When you get right down to it, what do we really learn from some of those OT guys, except "What not to do." They are good examples of flawed persons. Which is of course what each of us is. But once we hit the NT, when the payment is made and grace is unleashed...it's different. In the New Testament you don't have a philanderer with 1000's of wives being held up as someone to listen to but not emulate...it is different, isn't it?

Some people are so hung up on the OT -- using it almost as an excuse to be a rotten Christian (yes, I torture and rape my daughter but hey -- I'm one heckuva Bible teacher so it 'evens out' -- I mean, David murdered someone so I didn't go THAT far!) that they think it is an ok model to follow...

To me, in a rather simplistic overview, the OT is God saying: "Without the Perfect Sacrifice and without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, this is the best you are going to do..." And then in the NT, once the Sacrifice is made and the Spirit indwells, we have access to something they did not have in the OT. So it SHOULD make a difference, and we shouldn't excuse ourselves our sins on an OT standard when the NT standard is what is now in place.

Don't know what I'm trying to say, rambling and musing.
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I don't know if anyone in the church of Corinth was living the double life that you are speaking of, but Paul sure had some tough reproofs and instructions to those Christians who were 'sanctified and called to be saints' there.
 
I don't admire Hyles, Schaap or Combs, because of their double standards. They preached hard on sin, but yet where doing the same thing they were preaching against. I can admire the men in the old testament that did have sin in their lives, but they learned from they mistakes and they continued to serve the Lord-. I get tired of people trying to compare what Hyles and Schaap did to the faithful men in the Bible-no comparison. Just like some like to compare Dave Hyles to David in the Bible-so many differences.

Evans covered up what Dave did to his daughter! He was bought! Just found out Evans' son divorced his first wife, first wife wasn't allowed to tell anyone at the college because Evans did want anyone to think badly of him! REally-I guess once you cover up one thing it is easy to just keep playing the game and cover up some more!!
 
I don't know if anyone in the church of Corinth was living the double life that you are speaking of, but Paul sure had some tough reproofs and instructions to those Christians who were 'sanctified and called to be saints' there.
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True, of course. I was thinking more along the lines of the "named main character" types.
 
I took every class that I could from Combs.  I only remember one "wierd" thing that he said in a class.  It was my junior or senior year.  I believe it was a psychology class.  He was talking about men getting so busy that they forget about their wife.  He said, "Some of you guys ought to go home, walk in the door, and rape your wife".  Now everyone in the class knew what he meant and the Hackers were shouting "Amen" and "Glory", but it felt a little wierd.
 
RAIDER said:
I took every class that I could from Combs.  I only remember one "wierd" thing that he said in a class.  It was my junior or senior year.  I believe it was a psychology class.  He was talking about men getting so busy that they forget about their wife.  He said, "Some of you guys ought to go home, walk in the door, and rape your wife".  Now everyone in the class knew what he meant and the Hackers were shouting "Amen" and "Glory", but it felt a little wierd.
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I have to admit, that is weird, and I have never thought of a physical relationship between my wife and I in that context at all!
 
16KJV11 said:
RAIDER said:
I took every class that I could from Combs.  I only remember one "wierd" thing that he said in a class.  It was my junior or senior year.  I believe it was a psychology class.  He was talking about men getting so busy that they forget about their wife.  He said, "Some of you guys ought to go home, walk in the door, and rape your wife".  Now everyone in the class knew what he meant and the Hackers were shouting "Amen" and "Glory", but it felt a little wierd.
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I have to admit, that is weird, and I have never thought of a physical relationship between my wife and I in that context at all!
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What he said was a little uncomfortable for us unmarried guys.  Of course we did laugh!  He was trying to get the point across that the husbands needed to let the wives know that they are thinking about them all day long and can't wait to get home.  It was just a strange way of saying it.  The Hackers did howl!!
 
RAIDER said:
He said, "Some of you guys ought to go home, walk in the door, and rape your wife".
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Hmmmm....I wonder who is raping her now?

I do remember when he mentioned wanting to lose weight and get in better shape because he couldn't bear the thought of another man making love to his wife (if he died prematurely).

I wonder how that's working out for him?
 
redeemed said:
When you first heard about the severe accusations, did you all have a hard time believing it?  What finally convinced you.

Also, does anyone else remember him explaining the Trinity?  It was fascinating but confusing.
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I graduated a couple of years before my sister.  If I remember correctly Combs left HAC the year my sister graduated ('85 or '86??).  My dates may be off.  Combs was advertised in the IFB world as the top college Bible teacher in the nation.  If that was the case I thought it was strange that he would be leaving to take a church.  It makes me wonder what may have been going on in his life at the time.  It also seems like he took a newly graduated HAC grad with him to help at the church.  Does anyone else remember this?

Yes, I was shocked at the accusations.  There are some things that surprise you (i.e. a preacher having an affair), but the depth of wickedness in this case was appalling.  As you look back you realize how strange he was.

I don't remember the trinity explanation.
 
RAIDER said:
redeemed said:
When you first heard about the severe accusations, did you all have a hard time believing it?  What finally convinced you.

Also, does anyone else remember him explaining the Trinity?  It was fascinating but confusing.
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I graduated a couple of years before my sister.  If I remember correctly Combs left HAC the year my sister graduated ('85 or '86??).  My dates may be off.  Combs was advertised in the IFB world as the top college Bible teacher in the nation.  If that was the case I thought it was strange that he would be leaving to take a church.  It makes me wonder what may have been going on in his life at the time.  It also seems like he took a newly graduated HAC grad with him to help at the church.  Does anyone else remember this?

Yes, I was shocked at the accusations.  There are some things that surprise you (i.e. a preacher having an affair), but the depth of wickedness in this case was appalling.  As you look back you realize how strange he was.

I don't remember the trinity explanation.
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Yes, he left after the '85-'86 school year.  Your sister and I graduated together in '86.  I remember the last time before graduation that he walked out on that platform to preach in chapel.  Nearly everyone had tears, and I remember thinking I was glad I was graduating the same year he was leaving. 

I do not in any way admire him now, but that does not negate that things he stated in class that were true then and still true today.  I at first did not believe most of what I heard about him and his wife, or, maybe I didn't want to believe it.  Proof changed my mind, and I was very saddened that anyone - let alone someone who claimed the love of Christ - could treat another creature of God - let alone another human being - the way they did.  Oh, how our heavenly Father must grieve.

I still like and believe the statements I made in an earlier post on this thread, but other than on this thread, I seldom, if ever, credit my repeating them to him.   
 
I never heard Joe Combs, although I got some of his stuff second hand from my high school teacher who graduated from HAC in the early 80's. But in a very real sense he reminds me very much of Jack Schaap. He had a great reputation. He taught some very good stuff. At the same time, one could see, in hindsight, how traits that would develop as worse later were already present. Then the mind-blowing fall...
 
I was at HAC for about a year just before he left for Florida. He was teaching Proverbs at the time before he left and most of us in Div 1 had thought that he was such a good bible teacher. When he left, 3 or 4 of us from division 1 went with him to start his church. However, one year later, every one come back and no one said anything about the time they were there, so it must not have been a good experience for them.
 
It will not play for me.  All I get is turn to Psalms 19.
 
RAIDER said:
He was actually my favorite teacher.  His classes were interesting.  His notes were a lot like Warren Wiersbes.  It's still hard to comprehend what a monster he was.
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When I had him as a freshman for OT Survey and NT Survey in '73, I thought he was great. Then a few years later I discovered Wiersbe, and I lost all respect for Combs. All the great outlines he had given us were Wiersbe's outlines. Combs had just come to HAC from MBI, where Wiersbe was the pastor of Moody Church at the time. All Combs was doing was giving us the notes he had been given just a few years earlier, with no credit given to the real author.
 
I had Bro. Laurent for Old & New Testament Survey. He taught from a red 3 ring binder.  Had to know all key words, Key verse, and theme of each book. That was in 74.  Had Bro Combs for Daniel & Revelation. Only classes I had trouble with was English with Bro. Johnson and took Minor Prophets in summer school with Dr Fair. He would always give a pop quiz or a test and say " this is a fair test" Funny how you remember things that far back but cant remember what you read last night. I didn't find out till later that Bro Combs used Wiersbe notes.
 
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