Just to clarify here...

[Smellin Coffee]

...the same rich, powerful, white guys who want to ban abortion (and rightfully so) also want to take away prenatal and maternal health coverage. That's what it means to be pro-life. Got it.

 

[FSSL]

Are you suggesting that defunding Planned Parenthood is a problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

...the same rich, powerful, white guys who want to ban abortion (and rightfully so) also want to take away prenatal and maternal health coverage. That's what it means to be pro-life. Got it.

Yet again...and again and again and again.....you have NO idea what you're talking about. And, yet you keep talking. 

 

[Ransom]

...the same rich, powerful, white guys who want to ban abortion (and rightfully so) also want to take away prenatal and maternal health coverage.

Unlike life, medical insurance isn't a human right.

Just to clarify here.

 

[cpizzle]

Not mandating something is not the same as taking it away.

The government does not mandate that my TV is capable of playing Netflix....but it is still available to me.

Tell me you are trolling......

 

[LongGone]

...the same rich, powerful, white guys who want to ban abortion (and rightfully so) also want to take away prenatal and maternal health coverage. That's what it means to be pro-life. Got it.

Yet again...and again and again and again.....you have NO idea what you're talking about. And, yet you keep talking. 

Wow...have you ever looked in the mirror my friend?

 

[LongGone]

Not mandating something is not the same as taking it away.

The government does not mandate that my TV is capable of playing Netflix....but it is still available to me.

Tell me you are trolling......

You just compared pre-natal care to Netlfix.

Tell me you are trolling.....

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

...the same rich, powerful, white guys who want to ban abortion (and rightfully so) also want to take away prenatal and maternal health coverage. That's what it means to be pro-life. Got it.

Yet again...and again and again and again.....you have NO idea what you're talking about. And, yet you keep talking. 

Wow...have you ever looked in the mirror my friend?

I'm not the one peddling the liberal talking point crock about pre natal care and maternal health coverage being taken away by those who oppose killing babies.

Here's where Smellin a crock and goner cue the story about starfish with a little melodramatic music in the background....for effect.

 

[Ransom]

white guys

Always with libtards it's about race, even when it isn't.

 

[HeDied4U]

Are you suggesting that defunding Planned Parenthood is a problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish I could find the link / story that's shown up a few times in my FB feed, but at the moment, I can't locate it. It's a story / short video about how during the campaign, prenatal care was touted as a service of Planned Parenthood, and that by defunding PP, women's health would be put in danger, but yet when dozens upon dozens of calls were made to various PP clinics all over the country (97 according to the video), only five clinics said that they offered prenatal care. All of the others said that that was NOT a service they provided. Sounds like PP and the dems who support it were/are trying to sell us a false narrative. Hmmmmm, imagine that.

edit....found the video on YouTube

The Prenatal Care Deception.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekgiScr364Y

 

[Ransom]

You just compared pre-natal care to Netlfix.

Who are you, the narrator?

You have issues with analogy. Specifically, you handwave away any analogy you disagree without explaining why it fails to illustrate the point. Perhaps you feel you are infallible and we should just take your word for it?

 

[Ransom]

Hillary Clinton on the failure to repeal the ACA: "Most of all it's a victory for anyone who believes affordable health care is a human right." [Source]

What a load of Orwellian Newspeak. When the Left says health care is a "right," they really mean it's an obligation. Otherwise they would have no problem with Obamacare (or the AHCA) being optional, instead of fighting tooth and nail to force nuns to pay for birth control. I wonder how many of the alleged 24 million people who would "lose" their coverage if the ACA were repealed, are simply those who would have opted out of buying it if it weren't compulsory?

 

[LongGone]

You just compared pre-natal care to Netlfix.

Who are you, the narrator?

You have issues with analogy. Specifically, you handwave away any analogy you disagree without explaining why it fails to illustrate the point. Perhaps you feel you are infallible and we should just take your word for it?

Honestly...what can one explain when a comparison is being made between pre-natal care and Netlfix? I like most on here elaborate when I feel it is needed and stay simple when I think the point is self evident.

 

[Ransom]

Honestly...what can one explain when a comparison is being made between pre-natal care and Netlfix?

The comparison is obvious. Netflix is a service. It should be made available to purchase, not made compulsory whether you want it or not.

Similarly, health insurance is a service that should be made available, but not necessarily mandatory. Why should single men or women who are not sexual yet active, married couples where the wife is beyond childbearing, nuns, or for that matter, anyone who feels they could simply pay for maternal care out of pocket, be compelled to buy a service they do not need or want?

If health care is a right, don't make it an obligation.

 

[LongGone]

Honestly...what can one explain when a comparison is being made between pre-natal care and Netlfix?

The comparison is obvious. Netflix is a service. It should be made available to purchase, not made compulsory whether you want it or not.

Similarly, health insurance is a service that should be made available, but not necessarily mandatory. Why should single men or women who are not sexual yet active, married couples where the wife is beyond childbearing, nuns, or for that matter, anyone who feels they could simply pay for maternal care out of pocket, be compelled to buy a service they do not need or want?

If health care is a right, don't make it an obligation.

The same reason your tax dollars support your public schools even if you don't have children. The whole premise of healthcare is that everyone pays into the system. Some will get all their money back and some will not. The issue is just not making it available. It has been available. Anyone who could afford to pay could have health insurance. The question can it be made affordable.

 

[Ransom]

The same reason your tax dollars support your public schools even if you don't have children. The whole premise of healthcare is that everyone pays into the system.

But you don't have a "system," really. You have a bunch of private insurance providers offering health insurance and a law that says you must purchase a policy from one of them.

I live in a country with a single-payer "system." That which is medically necessary is covered. With respect to maternal care, that means routine prenatal visits and delivery. On the other hand, it doesn't include birth control, nor should it, since birth control is not medically necessary. If Canadians, say Roman Catholics, were compelled to subsidize contraception against their consciences, I would be in their corner just as I would be the Little Sisters of the Poor or Hobby Lobby.

My taxes pay to keep everyone eligible healthy. That is fair. They also pay to give everyone a basic public education. That also is fair. I shouldn't have to pay for someone's university tuition, though, and neither should I have to fund medical unnecessary health services like birth control.

 

[greypilgrim]

Some of you may remember me from the old forum.  If you recall, I had a job that put me in many far flung places of the world for extended periods of time.  Some of those places, the government ran everything, including the health care system.  Even with the best of intentions, government cannot manage such a system.  It collapses under its' own weight.  We are seeing it happen even in developed countries, yet we somehow think we'll escape the same consequence of the same policies.

 

[LongGone]

The same reason your tax dollars support your public schools even if you don't have children. The whole premise of healthcare is that everyone pays into the system.

But you don't have a "system," really. You have a bunch of private insurance providers offering health insurance and a law that says you must purchase a policy from one of them.

I live in a country with a single-payer "system." That which is medically necessary is covered. With respect to maternal care, that means routine prenatal visits and delivery. On the other hand, it doesn't include birth control, nor should it, since birth control is not medically necessary. If Canadians, say Roman Catholics, were compelled to subsidize contraception against their consciences, I would be in their corner just as I would be the Little Sisters of the Poor or Hobby Lobby.

My taxes pay to keep everyone eligible healthy. That is fair. They also pay to give everyone a basic public education. That also is fair. I shouldn't have to pay for someone's university tuition, though, and neither should I have to fund medical unnecessary health services like birth control.

So now you are arguing the semantics of it. Whether you pay through a mandated premium (which actually isn't mandated but you pay a penalty for not having insurance) or a single payer system the citizen is still paying the bill.

In the US Medicaid already pays for birth control so every tax payer is already picking up the cost no matter what their religious persuasion is. Are you telling me in Canada that there are no programs for birth control that are covered by the government? Honest question...I don't know.

I would argue that in the US the biggest issue conservatives have with healthcare is that they do not want a single payer system. This is a larger issue to most than whether or not birth control is covered.

Personally as a Democrat my preference is to figure out how to make it work with a market place type model. I believe there is a need to cover everyone but I also believe that many of the advancements that are achieved are motivated by the ability to make a profit. The "perfect" system would continue to motivate research and still cover everyone.

I do believe that both the market place model and the single payer model have benefits. The argument that US citizens go to Canada for prescriptions and Canadians come to the US to see specialists. (Granted not as simple as I am making it sound). The "perfect" system would take the best of both worlds.

I don't have much sympathy for Hobby Lobby. There chose to incorporate so that although they have interest in the company they are also protected on a personal level. I feel they are asking for it both ways. You want the protection of incorporation but you are outraged when you have to participate in something such as health benefits as a corporation.

IMHO your opinion of birth control would be correct if it was not for the savings birth control provide that help to keep the system viable.

To the same point it is interesting that some conservatives would advocate tying the tubes of women who get public benefits but would argue that we should not mandate covering birth control. I don't think you are advocating this but there are conservatives who would.

One other point on the education analogy. In providing for education we also pay for things such as the Marching Band. It is not necessary to receive an education but makes the education experience richer for some of the students.

 

[LongGone]

Some of you may remember me from the old forum.  If you recall, I had a job that put me in many far flung places of the world for extended periods of time.  Some of those places, the government ran everything, including the health care system.  Even with the best of intentions, government cannot manage such a system.  It collapses under its' own weight.  We are seeing it happen even in developed countries, yet we somehow think we'll escape the same consequence of the same policies.

That is a very sweeping statement. There are countries that have government run health programs (all come with challenges) but they are not collapsing.

 

[Smellin Coffee]

Are you suggesting that defunding Planned Parenthood is a problem?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of many issues, yes.

Planned Parenthood cannot do abortions with government funding according to the Hyde Amendment.

What do you have against helping poor women with mammograms, pap smears and other health screenings?