Modesty, yoga pants and myths.

[Recovering IFB]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

How Freudian.

Not Freudian, sin is in all of us, like Ally said earlier; whether a woman is wearing a thong or a burka or suit of armour, we as men are going to stare. Our own hearts are full of lust; to turn and blame women and their attire, as immodest as it appears to the individual, is still our fault. What some here are doing is blame shifting, pure and simple.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

How Freudian.

Not Freudian, sin is in all of us, like Ally said earlier; whether a woman is wearing a thong or a burka or suit of armour, we as men are going to stare. Our own hearts are full of lust; to turn and blame women and their attire, as immodest as it appears to the individual, is still our fault. What some here are doing is blame shifting, pure and simple.

^This.

 

[Binaca Chugger]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

How Freudian.

Not Freudian, sin is in all of us, like Ally said earlier; whether a woman is wearing a thong or a burka or suit of armour, we as men are going to stare. Our own hearts are full of lust; to turn and blame women and their attire, as immodest as it appears to the individual, is still our fault. What some here are doing is blame shifting, pure and simple.

I am not blame shifting.  Lust is sin. 

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.

If an individual walks down the street stark naked, the individual is sinning, and, will be arrested by the government.  It is true that another's decision to lust is their own sin.  But, we must acknowledge that walking naked in public is a sin also.

I think the problem here is that some believe modesty to be a mute point, as if the Bible is silent on the topic.  Or, maybe, they simply desire to be immodest and therefore are self-justifying.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

But yet, they blame the immodesty of the harlots

How Freudian.

Not Freudian, sin is in all of us, like Ally said earlier; whether a woman is wearing a thong or a burka or suit of armour, we as men are going to stare. Our own hearts are full of lust; to turn and blame women and their attire, as immodest as it appears to the individual, is still our fault. What some here are doing is blame shifting, pure and simple.

I am not blame shifting.  Lust is sin. 

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.

If an individual walks down the street stark naked, the individual is sinning, and, will be arrested by the government.  It is true that another's decision to lust is their own sin.  But, we must acknowledge that walking naked in public is a sin also.

I think the problem here is that some believe modesty to be a mute point, as if the Bible is silent on the topic.  Or, maybe, they simply desire to be immodest and therefore are self-justifying.

1. It's "moot" not "mute". 

2. "But, we must acknowledge that walking naked in public is a sin also."  Why must we do that?  What does that have to do with the person's lust unless you're connecting them and -- yes -- shifting blame? 

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I cannot properly discern the issue without some photos of said yoga pants.

Here you go.  Lust away. 

(Removed pic of a morbidly obese woman wearing yoga pants...)

 

[Recovering IFB]

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.


What is considered immodest? What particular length of dress would that be? And to what culture would this apply? Something frumpy and dumpy? What are you using for a guide and please provide Scripture for your answers.

 

[Bruh]

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.


What is considered immodest? What particular length of dress would that be? And to what culture would this apply? Something frumpy and dumpy? What are you using for a guide and please provide Scripture for your answers.

Nothing whatsoever is immodest in the American culture, you didn't know that?

 

[Bruh]

Let's assume that Hyles, Schaap, Gray, et al, ad nauseum, had modestly-attired women on staff, in school, at church, etc.  They still fell into sexual immorality.  Was it the modestly-dressed woman (or child, in Gray's case) who sinned, or was it the man who didn't have his thought life and urges under the control of the Holy Spirit?  Was it HER fault she dressed appropriately?

(Let's try to stay on this topic, rather than meandering off into "well, Satan was trying to take Pastor down, so he used that MODESTLY-DRESSED WOMAN to do it!!")

How does modesty protect or excuse these perverts?

It doesn't.

Next question.

 

[Tarheel Baptist]

Let's assume that Hyles, Schaap, Gray, et al, ad nauseum, had modestly-attired women on staff, in school, at church, etc.  They still fell into sexual immorality.  Was it the modestly-dressed woman (or child, in Gray's case) who sinned, or was it the man who didn't have his thought life and urges under the control of the Holy Spirit?  Was it HER fault she dressed appropriately?

(Let's try to stay on this topic, rather than meandering off into "well, Satan was trying to take Pastor down, so he used that MODESTLY-DRESSED WOMAN to do it!!")

How does modesty protect or excuse these perverts?

Has anyone on this thread made that....excuse these perverts....argument?


There is NO excuse for sin. Period.
Lust is a sin.
Lust doesn't always involve sex or sexual thoughts.
A woman's dress can exacerbate lust in a man...often without her knowledge.
In that case, a man is still responsible for his sin.
A woman who deliberately attempts to incite/create lust in a man is also committing 'sin'.

Where am I going wrong?

 

[Binaca Chugger]

 

[Recovering IFB]

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.


What is considered immodest? What particular length of dress would that be? And to what culture would this apply? Something frumpy and dumpy? What are you using for a guide and please provide Scripture for your answers.

Nothing whatsoever is immodest in the American culture, you didn't know that?

Well can you give me an example from Scripture about appropriate  attire?

 

[BALAAM]

I have actually had to quit wearing spandex because some of the men (?) on here were lusting after me.

 

[Bruh]

Immodesty is also sin.  If a person (male or female) dresses immodestly, it is sin.


What is considered immodest? What particular length of dress would that be? And to what culture would this apply? Something frumpy and dumpy? What are you using for a guide and please provide Scripture for your answers.

Nothing whatsoever is immodest in the American culture, you didn't know that?

Well can you give me an example from Scripture about appropriate  attire?

Actually, I believe you should be the one that can give us scripture about appropriate attire. 

So, can you give me an example from Scripture about appropriate  attire?  In your opinion, is there scripture that tells us about appropriate attire? 

 

[Fresh Air]

A statement I heard in class today that I think is applicable here...

It is common for the reaction to sin to be sin. Many times it is also explainable and understandable. But that doesn't make it right.

 

[Fresh Air]

Ale, you are reacting emotionally on this thread, not logically. You are blaming me for a position I do not hold (that men are not at fault for lusting) on the basis of what others (some people in relation to JS) have done. And without being patronizing I think I understand why. You view this discussion through the lens of all that happened to you. And I don't blame you for that. I'm sure I would to if I had endured all that you did.

The truth is I am not trying to be clever. I am not trying to absolve men of their responsibility for their own lustful problems. I am painfully aware of my own sinful proclivities. And no one else on this thread has said anything else.

But your experiences and the emotion that flows from them are not authoritative. Scripture is. And the same Scripture that forbids men to lust also commands that women dress modestly. Both of those statements are spiritual facts. Both of them stand on their own as independent facts, whether they are circumstantially linked or not. I cannot blame my lustful heart's reaction on immodest dress. You cannot assert you have no responsibility for dressing modestly.

And just as it isn't wrong to point out that men sin in the lustfulness of their hearts so it is not wrong to point out that women sin in the immodesty of their dress. Sin is sin, whichever gender does in whatever way. And it is always wrong.

 

[Walt]

I don't understand why this goes back and forth... women can certainly dress (and act) in a provocative manner -- harlots have been doing it for centuries.  And some women are evil; I know of a young man who took the pastorate, and the younger women in the church set up a betting pool about which of them could seduce the man first.  I was shocked to hear about this... that's pretty evil.

At the same time, men must control their thoughts.  It isn't as much the view a man gets from an immodestly dressed woman, as when he allows his mind to dwell upon various and sundry thoughts.  It is the man's evil lust that will cause him to violate innocent children and modestly dressed women.  Such a man should be severely punished.

There can be sin on both sides, and there can be innocence on one side, I believe.

The modern idea that some appear to propagate is "a woman should be able to dress however she likes and should bear no responsibility at all for inflaming a man's lust."  I'm sorry; that seems nonsense.  It is equally nonsense for the man to put all of the blame of some woman dressing poorly.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

ya know.... in another thought.so what;s the big difference?.......... (and yes... i already know what it is... but i;m asking you guys...). ..... is it really about a womans choice of clothing?.... or is it something else which may or may not be her fault... or even just a case of genetics..... that makes men say one is evil and causing them to lust... but the other is ok?........... does every woman not built like a bean pole or the michelin tire man have to wear a burka or hollowed out oak barrels just to keep men from thinking evil thoughts?........  ???

It's not always a case of genetics when a woman looks more attractive than the one in my picture.  Sometimes it's a case of lots of cosmetic surgery. 

By the way, I'm very fat, so I'm permitted to post fat people photos.  Off/topic, but related: Go ahead and accuse me of gluttony, but at my visit with the nutritionist today, I told her honestly what I eat on a typical day and she told me that on typical days I may not be getting enough calories.  And I don't eat sweets, drink soda (diet or sugared), junk food, or refined carbs.  I've been investigating lap band surgery, but after today's doctor visit, I'm thinking I better have my thyroid checked, first. 

At least I don't have to worry about women trying to seduce me.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

ya know.... in another thought.so what;s the big difference?.......... (and yes... i already know what it is... but i;m asking you guys...). ..... is it really about a womans choice of clothing?.... or is it something else which may or may not be her fault... or even just a case of genetics..... that makes men say one is evil and causing them to lust... but the other is ok?........... does every woman not built like a bean pole or the michelin tire man have to wear a burka or hollowed out oak barrels just to keep men from thinking evil thoughts?........  ???

It's not always a case of genetics when a woman looks more attractive than the one in my picture.  Sometimes it's a case of lots of cosmetic surgery. 

By the way, I'm very fat, so I'm permitted to post fat people photos.  Off/topic, but related: Go ahead and accuse me of gluttony, but at my visit with the nutritionist today, I told her honestly what I eat on a typical day and she told me that on typical days I may not be getting enough calories.  And I don't eat sweets, drink soda (diet or sugared), junk food, or refined carbs.  I've been investigating lap band surgery, but after today's doctor visit, I'm thinking I better have my thyroid checked, first. 

At least I don't have to worry about women trying to seduce me.

and yet.... somewhere in the world....... in some remote village... or even a large city...... . there is a man who would find that woman in your picture very attractive....... 

True.  There is that song, "I like big butts and I cannot lie". 

 

[bgwilkinson]

ya know.... in another thought.so what;s the big difference?.......... (and yes... i already know what it is... but i;m asking you guys...). ..... is it really about a womans choice of clothing?.... or is it something else which may or may not be her fault... or even just a case of genetics..... that makes men say one is evil and causing them to lust... but the other is ok?........... does every woman not built like a bean pole or the michelin tire man have to wear a burka or hollowed out oak barrels just to keep men from thinking evil thoughts?........  ???

It's not always a case of genetics when a woman looks more attractive than the one in my picture.  Sometimes it's a case of lots of cosmetic surgery. 

By the way, I'm very fat, so I'm permitted to post fat people photos.  Off/topic, but related: Go ahead and accuse me of gluttony, but at my visit with the nutritionist today, I told her honestly what I eat on a typical day and she told me that on typical days I may not be getting enough calories.  And I don't eat sweets, drink soda (diet or sugared), junk food, or refined carbs.  I've been investigating lap band surgery, but after today's doctor visit, I'm thinking I better have my thyroid checked, first. 

At least I don't have to worry about women trying to seduce me.

and yet.... somewhere in the world....... in some remote village... or even a large city...... . there is a man who would find that woman in your picture very attractive.......  we all know beauty is the heart and eye of the beholder..... well....... so is lust..... both are products of the one looking... .....

In Africa that woman would be viewed by African men the way a runway model is viewed by American men as very beautiful.

It certainly is at least partially a cultural thing.

The big woman can get any man she wants if she lives in Africa.

 

[rsc2a]

True.  There is that song, "I like big butts and I cannot lie".

You other brothers can't deny.