Mrs. Hyles and the kids

sword said:
If even some of the things Linda Murphrey said about her dad and his wealth were true, Mrs. Hyles would have had more money than she could ever spend.

Very few IFB pastors or assistant pastors have any kind of wealth at all. Most of their success comes from the generous benefits they may be offered as pastor and from the money from speaking engagements. I'm not sure Hyles Publications sold enough books to generate any kind of serious income and Dr. Hyles was known to give some of that money away.

Jack Hyles should have had a million dollar policy on himself so she would be cared for. Pastors wives are usually asked to leave the parsonage and sometimes live in poverity after their pastor husband dies. Most IFB pastors I know have no pension, 401K or significant savings when they retire.
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Most laymen I k ow have no pension, 401K or significant savings when they retire.

I’m not saying you said this in your post but I to get very tired of full time people and or pastors acting like they give so much more than the average laymen. And how their lives are so much harder than the average layman.

Everyone has it hard. Not just people in full time ministry.
 
Bruh said:
Most laymen I k ow have no pension, 401K or significant savings when they retire.

I’m not saying you said this in your post but I to get very tired of full time people and or pastors acting like they give so much more than the average laymen. And how their lives are so much harder than the average layman.

Everyone has it hard. Not just people in full time ministry.
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I am sorry, so sorry. Really sorry..... but I cannot help but reply back, "Be good to everybody, 'cause everybody is having a tough time." There, I said it. We can move on.
 
sword said:
If even some of the things Linda Murphrey said about her dad and his wealth were true, Mrs. Hyles would have had more money than she could ever spend.

Very few IFB pastors or assistant pastors have any kind of wealth at all. Most of their success comes from the generous benefits they may be offered as pastor and from the money from speaking engagements. I'm not sure Hyles Publications sold enough books to generate any kind of serious income and Dr. Hyles was known to give some of that money away.

Jack Hyles should have had a million dollar policy on himself so she would be cared for. Pastors wives are usually asked to leave the parsonage and sometimes live in poverity after their pastor husband dies. Most IFB pastors I know have no pension, 401K or significant savings when they retire.
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I know this -- self publishing books is a very profitable arrangement, IF you have a solid base of readers/buyers, and Jack Hyles most definitely did. This is how he was able at Pastor's schools to tell everyone there, "You can have any two books of mine for five dollars, just raise your hand." And the girls would collect the money and deliver the books. Even at that discount, he was still making a profit. I DO think he was churning a nice income stream from books and tapes. But the millions that he spoke of to some, I don't believe.

I believe he put Hyles Publications under the church umbrella, which allowed it to live in a tax free environment. For this reason, I think the church would have won a legal challenge if it had been challenged after his death -- the question being, is Hyles Publications the property of FBC or it is it the personal and intellectual property of the Jack Hyles estate?

So, Jack had plenty of "spending" money when he was alive, but likely, relatively little in personal assets. It appears to be another story of families splitting posthumously over a few bucks. I see no evidence that any of the Hyles heirs ended up with much cash. Beverly Hyles moving back to Texas after his death, after having been an Indiana resident for over forty years seems a significant event in the story.
 
sword said:
If even some of the things Linda Murphrey said about her dad and his wealth were true, Mrs. Hyles would have had more money than she could ever spend.

Very few IFB pastors or assistant pastors have any kind of wealth at all. Most of their success comes from the generous benefits they may be offered as pastor and from the money from speaking engagements. I'm not sure Hyles Publications sold enough books to generate any kind of serious income and Dr. Hyles was known to give some of that money away.

Jack Hyles should have had a million dollar policy on himself so she would be cared for. Pastors wives are usually asked to leave the parsonage and sometimes live in poverity after their pastor husband dies. Most IFB pastors I know have no pension, 401K or significant savings when they retire.
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My 401K, which I rolled over into an IRA, came from BOEING. I add to it sparingly with my paycheck from the church I pastor. I have never heard one of my deacons ask me, Pastor, let's have the church set up a 401K for you. They literally couldn't care less if I have to work until I'm 80.
I remember when we had a business meeting when I was a layman. The pastor asked if the church would pay for a life insurance policy for him.
Another layman said, preacher, shouldn't your family trust God to meet their needs?
I can give you his name b/c it has always stuck in my mind about that mans generosity towards the preacher.
About a year and a half ago, I had to ask for an unheard of raise b/c the median household income in our area was 100K, but I was getting paid about 45K, with a few benefits, like the church pays my wife and my cell phone, they pay about 250 a month for my wife's insurance.
My kids have always had state paid for health insurance and I'm a veteran and I go through the VA, though it's not free, it's very reasonable.
I own my house, I don't live in the parsonage...
I make about 60K a year now, but still have to work a part time job and my wife cleans buildings several nights a week.
Grateful for the raise, but we're not rolling in the dough.
Interesting that I was making more than 60K a year when I left Boeing back in 2002.
Not complaining in the least, but if I still worked for Boeing, I would probably have more than 500K in my 401K, my pension would be at least 1K a month if not more, and I could retire in a couple of years.
A little different now.
Now, I pray God will take me before I'm 66 so my wife can get the term life insurance that I pay for.
Our church is not struggling financially, btw.
Thanks for letting me share this.
 
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Starlifter said:
My 401K, which I rolled over into an IRA, came from BOEING. I add to it sparingly with my paycheck from the church I pastor. I have never heard one of my deacons ask me, Pastor, let's have the church set up a 401K for you. They literally couldn't care less if I have to work until I'm 80.
I remember when we had a business meeting when I was a layman. The pastor asked if the church would pay for a life insurance policy for him.
Another layman said, preacher, shouldn't your family trust God to meet their needs?
I can give you his name b/c it has always stuck in my mind about that mans generosity towards the preacher.
About a year and a half ago, I had to ask for an unheard of raise b/c the median household income in our area was 100K, but I was getting paid about 45K, with a few benefits, like the church pays my wife and my cell phone, they pay about 250 a month for my wife's insurance.
My kids have always had state paid for health insurance and I'm a veteran and I go through the VA, though it's not free, it's very reasonable.
I own my house, I don't live in the parsonage...
I make about 60K a year now, but still have to work a part time job and my wife cleans buildings several nights a week.
Grateful for the raise, but we're not rolling in the dough.
Interesting that I was making more than 60K a year when I left Boeing back in 2002.
Not complaining in the least, but if I still worked for Boeing, I would probably have more than 500K in my 401K, my pension would be at least 1K a month if not more, and I could retire in a couple of years.
A little different now.
Now, I pray God will take me before I'm 66 so my wife can get the term life insurance that I pay for.
Our church is not struggling financially, btw.
Thanks for letting me share this.
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Sorry to hear this! I do not know you personally but I will assume that you are being faithful to your calling and are a "laborer worthy of your hire!"

If so, your church family should be taking better care of you!
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Sorry to hear this! I do not know you personally but I will assume that you are being faithful to your calling and are a "laborer worthy of your hire!"

If so, your church family should be taking better care of you!
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God is good to me, I'm not complaining...Just wanted to encourage laymen to consider the needs of their pastor.
 
Bob Jones VI said:
It (large sums of money) would be evident somewhere. He was probably paying people off not to tell on him for his double life, which his daughter Linda revealed. I believe her. He was a bloviating liar and exaggerating self righteous Pharisee. FOr all we know, he was paying off families of teen girls who his son David the serial adulterer sexually assaulted.

He was a powerful man, and we all know that power corrupts. At one time, I wanted to believe the best about Hyles, but there are too many people who knew the truth who exposed him as a liar and fake. Too many reliable witnesses. Godly men and women.
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That is true and for all we know you have teens locked in your basement, but generally it's best to stick with facts or at least fact based speculation. I have no evidence you have ever done any thing wrong so to actually suggest such would be extreamly misguided of me.
 
Starlifter said:
My 401K, which I rolled over into an IRA, came from BOEING. I add to it sparingly with my paycheck from the church I pastor. I have never heard one of my deacons ask me, Pastor, let's have the church set up a 401K for you. They literally couldn't care less if I have to work until I'm 80.
I remember when we had a business meeting when I was a layman. The pastor asked if the church would pay for a life insurance policy for him.
Another layman said, preacher, shouldn't your family trust God to meet their needs?
I can give you his name b/c it has always stuck in my mind about that mans generosity towards the preacher.
About a year and a half ago, I had to ask for an unheard of raise b/c the median household income in our area was 100K, but I was getting paid about 45K, with a few benefits, like the church pays my wife and my cell phone, they pay about 250 a month for my wife's insurance.
My kids have always had state paid for health insurance and I'm a veteran and I go through the VA, though it's not free, it's very reasonable.
I own my house, I don't live in the parsonage...
I make about 60K a year now, but still have to work a part time job and my wife cleans buildings several nights a week.
Grateful for the raise, but we're not rolling in the dough.
Interesting that I was making more than 60K a year when I left Boeing back in 2002.
Not complaining in the least, but if I still worked for Boeing, I would probably have more than 500K in my 401K, my pension would be at least 1K a month if not more, and I could retire in a couple of years.
A little different now.
Now, I pray God will take me before I'm 66 so my wife can get the term life insurance that I pay for.
Our church is not struggling financially, btw.
Thanks for letting me share this.
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Most wives work that’s not anymore sacrifice than any other home in America. Most Americans live pay check to pay check.

All I’m saying is, I just don’t see how a pastor struggles any more than the average American home.
 
Bruh said:
Most wives work that’s not anymore sacrifice than any other home in America. Most Americans live pay check to pay check.

All I’m saying is, I just don’t see how a pastor struggles any more than the average American home.
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Families are struggling when their income is $75K per year. How much more so if you are making $45K as a pastor? If a church wants to have a full-time pastor who is able to put in 40-60 hours in study and sermon preparation in addition to all of their other duties (counseling, visitation, bereavement, etc.), they need to pay him a full-time salary that allows them to take care of their family, that allows his wife to have a reliable vehicle, that allows them to have housing where they are not continually in fear of their personal safety, and so forth!

I am not privy to our pastor's salary but I do know that his wife works as an RN making her the primary "bread winner" in the family. God has also seen fit to make them childless of which they did not choose (they are in their 50s now) but it does give his wife freedom to be focused on her career and for him to be focused upon what God has called him to.

I plan on (by God's grace) serving in ministry until the day I fall over dead. I do not receive any sort of salary or compensation. I am self-employed and therefore support myself. We have business endeavors both here in the states as well as the Philippines so I am confident that the Lord will take care of our needs. We will also set up a 501c3 enabling others to participate in our benevolence ministry in the Philippines. I agree with John Piper who speaks of the tragedy of one wasting their retirement "collecting sea shells!" This will not be me although I will make time for fishing, scuba diving, and wailing on my Stratocaster!:cool:
 
Baptist Renegade said:
If a church wants to have a full-time pastor who is able to put in 40-60 hours in study and sermon preparation in addition to all of their other duties (counseling, visitation, bereavement, etc.), they need to pay him a full-time salary that allows them to take care of their family,
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I’ve attended a few churches that were running under 100 people in the congregation. When a church is that small, in all fairness, there’s very little counseling, funerals and weddings happening. The church was usually a Sunday morning only deal, and Wednesday night was usually more of a prayer/singing/small group devotional arrangement. I’m not saying that the small-church pastor doesn’t deserve to be compensated, but let’s not act like the requirements are tantamount with a congregation of 1,000 members.
 
DrHuk&Duck said:
I’ve attended a few churches that were running under 100 people in the congregation. When a church is that small, in all fairness, there’s very little counseling, funerals and weddings happening. The church was usually a Sunday morning only deal, and Wednesday night was usually more of a prayer/singing/small group devotional arrangement. I’m not saying that the small-church pastor doesn’t deserve to be compensated, but let’s not act like the requirements are tantamount with a congregation of 1,000 members.
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I bet the 100 members will keep his cell-phone buzzing on a continual basis! Hopefully there are some faithful deacons and church volunteers taking care of the church property and other practical matters.

Preaching and sermon preparation is a big pet peeve of mine. I put considerable time and effort into what I am doing and I am not being paid for it (and not asking to). There shouldn't be that much difference between preparing a sermon for a congregation of 100 and one having 1000. It is a sacred honor and one needs to treat it as such.
 
Baptist Renegade said:
Families are struggling when their income is $75K per year. How much more so if you are making $45K as a pastor? If a church wants to have a full-time pastor who is able to put in 40-60 hours in study and sermon preparation in addition to all of their other duties (counseling, visitation, bereavement, etc.), they need to pay him a full-time salary that allows them to take care of their family, that allows his wife to have a reliable vehicle, that allows them to have housing where they are not continually in fear of their personal safety, and so forth!

I am not privy to our pastor's salary but I do know that his wife works as an RN making her the primary "bread winner" in the family. God has also seen fit to make them childless of which they did not choose (they are in their 50s now) but it does give his wife freedom to be focused on her career and for him to be focused upon what God has called him to.

I plan on (by God's grace) serving in ministry until the day I fall over dead. I do not receive any sort of salary or compensation. I am self-employed and therefore support myself. We have business endeavors both here in the states as well as the Philippines so I am confident that the Lord will take care of our needs. We will also set up a 501c3 enabling others to participate in our benevolence ministry in the Philippines. I agree with John Piper who speaks of the tragedy of one wasting their retirement "collecting sea shells!" This will not be me although I will make time for fishing, scuba diving, and wailing on my Stratocaster!:cool:
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There are many men and or women that feel the same way about the place they work. The answer they are given is, well it’s up to you to make the correct adjustments to increase your income.

The biggest part of laymen are in the same boat they may not have reliable vehicles or they may only have one vehicle.

There are many many people where the husband makes 45k a year and the wife works as well.

The struggles that a pastor has are not unique to being a pastor. A lot of people would love to live in a safer neighborhood.

Where am I wrong?
 
Baptist Renegade said:
I bet the 100 members will keep his cell-phone buzzing on a continual basis! Hopefully there are some faithful deacons and church volunteers taking care of the church property and other practical matters.

Preaching and sermon preparation is a big pet peeve of mine. I put considerable time and effort into what I am doing and I am not being paid for it (and not asking to). There shouldn't be that much difference between preparing a sermon for a congregation of 100 and one having 1000. It is a sacred honor and one needs to treat it as such.
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I know a man whose dad worked a full time job for the city. He was off about 5pm. Went home ate super quickly and went to a pizza shop and washed dishes. And this was on repeat 5 days a week for many years. On Saturdays he would cut grass at a funeral home. And again this was on repeat for many years.

I’m sorry, I just don’t get how a pastor has it any harder than the average American.
 
Ekklesian said:
Except in the case of the other party, it seems. I wonder what her nearly 600 texts were saying.

And, no, this is not a justification of Schaap, or an argument for the mitigation of the sentence he got, and neither do I believe it should have been, but neither do I buy the "he-cast-a-spell-on-us" baloney.

Effectively 17 is not an innocent age. Both parties are responsible for their actions. And I'd start there when counseling the girl (who would be nearly 30 now). I think telling her that she was just a vulnerable, hypnotized victim is not telling her the truth, nor of any help to her.

My takeaways from the document I linked:

  • She was a trouble-maker with boys to begin with. I suspect by that fact and the way things went with Schaap, that she was hot, and that she knew how to exploit her sex appeal. I don't think that her troubles were about just one romantic interest who no longer returned her affection. I also suspect her 'self-destructive behaviors' were a way to manipulate her parents and the administrators of the school.
  • Schaap's communications don't strike me as the kind written by a predator. Predators know better than to put things in writing unless they're worded to lend plausible deniability. They look to me like like the songs of a giddy, silly, stupid old fool, who fell in love with a willing hottie.
  • According to the document, their counseling started about her relationship. Now how do you suspect this turned into meetings for sex? Schaap wasn't a bad looking guy at the time, despite his nearly 60 years of age.

There's a lot of stupidity to go around, here. Schaap's stupidity is paramount, of course.

The parents also peg the stupidity meter...allowing their daughter to go to counselling alone with a man? Trust-worthy or not, that's just stupid. Monumentally stupid. Being under some kind of spell? Baloney...but even if it were so...they're responsible. They're hollering "witch!" just to save their skins.

And of course, the church. I mean...talk of a ship of fools, for the same reason.

The victim is, of course, legally innocent, but only on a technicality. Morally, she is responsible for her actions. Under some kind of spell? Baloney...but even if it were so...she's responsible.
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Umm. You obviously haven't read the court record of Schaap’s letters telling the girl it was God’s will.
 
Ekklesian said:
She didn't know the 7th Commandment?
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She certainly did. But who had been using her body? Who taught her fornicate? Who led her that way? Thise who teach children to sin, will get the millstone and perhaps the Lord will not condemn her because others led her astray.

“They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." - John 8:4-11
 
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