My Visit to Steven Anderson?s Faithful Word Baptist Church...
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My definitions....You haven't defined anything, and I'm pretty sure why.FSSL said:
So, God loves some people, and damns others.
God blames one individual's sins on all of us, so that He can do this.
And you Augustinian Fatalists want to accuse other theological systems of "heresy".
Clean out your own fouled coop.
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Choking on Scripture? We are ALL damned. God, in His mercy, saves SOME, but not all. Are you upset at our theology because we do not believe everyone in the world is going to heaven?
Even Arminians do not believe as you do. God was not unjust to create a man, full of the highest intelligence freed from the effects of sin to be our representative. If the ?prophet? were in the garden, he would have disobeyed sooner and gobbled up the entire tree!
Can?t help yourself?!
We have inherited Adam?s sin. Adams sin has been inputed to us... right at the moment of conception.
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Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam
to Moses, even over them that had not
sinned after the similitude of Adam?s trans-
gression, who is the figure of him that
was to come.
5:14 Nevertheless death reigned. But even without the law death was universal. All men from Adam to Moses were subject to death, not because of their sinful acts against the Mosaic Law (which they did not have), but because of their own inherited sinful nature. (MacArthur)
The following illustration is the best I have read and if I am wrong I will consider changing my mind on the subject since I have been wrong on many things in the past.
Many years ago, a man jumped off a high bridge in an effort to end his life. Fortunately, he lived through the ordeal but broke his back as a result of the fall, and ended up in a wheelchair. His attempt to take his life caused a great deal of distress, to those in control of the bridge, to paramedics, to traffic, and especially to his family. Authorities wanted to press charges against him but they couldn?t; since this was the city?s first suicide attempt, they had no law forbidding such an act. He escaped the consequences of the law of man, but suffered the painful consequences of breaking another law, the law of gravity.
In the same way, there was no prosecution by God from Adam to Moses. However, every person in Adam still sinned and therefore suffered the consequences of breaking the then unwritten moral Law??the soul that sins, it shall die? (Ezekiel 18:4). Death reigned as king, with a dominion from Adam to Moses. They didn?t partake from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as did Adam, but they still sinned against God.
to Moses, even over them that had not
sinned after the similitude of Adam?s trans-
gression, who is the figure of him that
was to come.
5:14 Nevertheless death reigned. But even without the law death was universal. All men from Adam to Moses were subject to death, not because of their sinful acts against the Mosaic Law (which they did not have), but because of their own inherited sinful nature. (MacArthur)
The following illustration is the best I have read and if I am wrong I will consider changing my mind on the subject since I have been wrong on many things in the past.
Many years ago, a man jumped off a high bridge in an effort to end his life. Fortunately, he lived through the ordeal but broke his back as a result of the fall, and ended up in a wheelchair. His attempt to take his life caused a great deal of distress, to those in control of the bridge, to paramedics, to traffic, and especially to his family. Authorities wanted to press charges against him but they couldn?t; since this was the city?s first suicide attempt, they had no law forbidding such an act. He escaped the consequences of the law of man, but suffered the painful consequences of breaking another law, the law of gravity.
In the same way, there was no prosecution by God from Adam to Moses. However, every person in Adam still sinned and therefore suffered the consequences of breaking the then unwritten moral Law??the soul that sins, it shall die? (Ezekiel 18:4). Death reigned as king, with a dominion from Adam to Moses. They didn?t partake from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as did Adam, but they still sinned against God.
prophet said:
The problem is not found in the definition of imputation. Your difficulty is making a distinction with no difference.
As biscuit shows above, your scheme is unfounded in Scripture. It is simply Pelagianism.
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Wow.FSSL said:
You seem so intelligent and reasonable at times, but you've descended into: jamming every peg through the same hole, and name calling.
Death is inherited.
Sin is imputed.
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prophet said:
How can you separate the two?
Sin came before death because death is a result of sin.
Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned.
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"Sin is imputed".Tarheel Baptist said:
What I mean by this:
God keeps a record of our own personal sin, and that is the works that the dead are judged by.."their works", not "Adam's".
What FSSL seems to be trying to make me say (i may be seeing this wrong, his posts have been confusing), is that Adam's sin is imputed to us, making us sinners.
Apparently, "imputation", in this context, means "put in to us".
Apparently, we are judged for Adam's sin, according to FSSL.
Now, I clearly showed Scripture that proves that no one is judged for another's sin.
And, again, we that are neither Calvinist nor Arminian/Pelagian, can not see an unfair God, who would judge one for another's sin....especially when He so vehemently denied that He would do so.
This is one of those subjects where you are gonna come down on one side of the aisle or the other.
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You totally destroy Paul's analogy.
If you say Adam's sin was imputed to us when we commit a sin, then you must say that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us when we commit a righteous act.
You cannot reconcile this phrase in Romans 5:12: "Just as..."
If you say Adam's sin was imputed to us when we commit a sin, then you must say that Christ's righteousness is imputed to us when we commit a righteous act.
You cannot reconcile this phrase in Romans 5:12: "Just as..."
prophet said:
Then don't teach Pelagianism.
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FSSL said:
I have never said that Adam's sin was imputed to anyone but Adam.
This is why I keep pointing out that you are building a Pelagian straw man, and trying to railroad me into defending him.
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prophet said:
Reread your history.
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I know what I believe and have said.FSSL said:
I would not have said that any one person's sin was imputed to another.
If it looked like I said that, then I was either unclear in conveying it, or, more likely, you read that into what I actually said.
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"Spamderson isn't a Pelagian," said the Pelagian.
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prophet said:
That's right. No one is as theologically informed as you.
prophet said:
Who taught you this?