Pastors Mistreating Staff

no value

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Good morning all.

I started a thread last week about pastor splitting up marriages. It took a few turns I didn't anticipate, however, the posts were interesting and appreciated. Here's a new topic to consider---Pastors mistreating their staff.

Allow me to briefly explain---my son works on a church staff for a pastor who is a tyrant to his 10-person staff. I've heard many stories (some from my son, some from other staff members) of the humiliating dressing-down of staff members in meetings, the snide, belittling remarks to congregants about his staff, and his absolute disregard for his staff's family life. Its gotten so bad that a male staff member was humiliated in front of his fellow staff members by the pastor for not having children. Truth be told, it was discovered by testing that the man is infertile, but the very fact that the pastor humiliated him in front of others over an extremely personal matter, is (to me) way over the line. This is a private matter between a husband and wife.

There are a lot of other examples, but those few are my most vivid memories. I suspect some will suggest the staff should just quit if they can't buck-up to this dictator. I certainly have suggested this to my son. The truth is--some have applied at other churches for ministry postions, but when the hiring church contacted the tyrant pastor as a reference, he sabotaged the application. And he was even brazen to tell the staff member he put the "kabosh" on their job prospect.

So wadda do? Any takers?
 
Do what laymen do when they had enough of their employer.
 
no value said:
Good morning all.

I started a thread last week about pastor splitting up marriages. It took a few turns I didn't anticipate, however, the posts were interesting and appreciated. Here's a new topic to consider---Pastors mistreating their staff.

Allow me to briefly explain---my son works on a church staff for a pastor who is a tyrant to his 10-person staff. I've heard many stories (some from my son, some from other staff members) of the humiliating dressing-down of staff members in meetings, the snide, belittling remarks to congregants about his staff, and his absolute disregard for his staff's family life. Its gotten so bad that a male staff member was humiliated in front of his fellow staff members by the pastor for not having children. Truth be told, it was discovered by testing that the man is infertile, but the very fact that the pastor humiliated him in front of others over an extremely personal matter, is (to me) way over the line. This is a private matter between a husband and wife.

There are a lot of other examples, but those few are my most vivid memories. I suspect some will suggest the staff should just quit if they can't buck-up to this dictator. I certainly have suggested this to my son. The truth is--some have applied at other churches for ministry postions, but when the hiring church contacted the tyrant pastor as a reference, he sabotaged the application. And he was even brazen to tell the staff member he put the "kabosh" on their job prospect.

So wadda do? Any takers?

Sounds to me like this preacher needs more "Grace".
 
Thankfully the vast majority of Pastors are men of God who love the lord and love their people. Unfortunately there are some bullies who masquerade as pastors. Sometimes the staff member has to cut his losses and move on.
 
I'd call a deacons meeting and if that didn't work..... I'd call a congregation meeting on the issues.

Nothing wrong with either. In fact, if the NUT tries to block it, then you have every right to question his integrity for not being transparent.

Then again. I don't expect him to allow it.

If I wasn't heard on the matter, Me, personally, I'd stand up in a service and deal with it publicly quoting 1 Corinthians 6:3

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?



 
Tennessean said:
Thankfully the vast majority of Pastors are men of God who love the lord and love their people. Unfortunately there are some bullies who masquerade as pastors. Sometimes the staff member has to cut his losses and move on.

Or the dictator should cut his loses and move on. You're buy into the dictators rhetoric and recommending the exact thing the dictator wants. He wants people who don't question and do anything he wants without opposition.

That's not a leader.

The vast majority of pastors are not men of God. In fact, you need to drop this

"man of God" nonsense. You're not Elijah!!!

Exactly what power do you have when you can't do anything but bully someone in submission?
 
All saved people, men and women alike, are men and women of God, believer priests. No one is more equal than the others.

A pastor is no more a man of God than the people in the congregation.

Many pastors do have a problem with the Moses model. It is not for the New Testament called out assembly.

This pastor must not be a convinced Baptist. My sympathies.

Don't ever hire a pastor who is not a convinced Baptist.
 
no value said:
Good morning all.

I started a thread last week about pastor splitting up marriages. It took a few turns I didn't anticipate, however, the posts were interesting and appreciated. Here's a new topic to consider---Pastors mistreating their staff.

Allow me to briefly explain---my son works on a church staff for a pastor who is a tyrant to his 10-person staff. I've heard many stories (some from my son, some from other staff members) of the humiliating dressing-down of staff members in meetings, the snide, belittling remarks to congregants about his staff, and his absolute disregard for his staff's family life. Its gotten so bad that a male staff member was humiliated in front of his fellow staff members by the pastor for not having children. Truth be told, it was discovered by testing that the man is infertile, but the very fact that the pastor humiliated him in front of others over an extremely personal matter, is (to me) way over the line. This is a private matter between a husband and wife.

There are a lot of other examples, but those few are my most vivid memories. I suspect some will suggest the staff should just quit if they can't buck-up to this dictator. I certainly have suggested this to my son. The truth is--some have applied at other churches for ministry postions, but when the hiring church contacted the tyrant pastor as a reference, he sabotaged the application. And he was even brazen to tell the staff member he put the "kabosh" on their job prospect.

So wadda do? Any takers?

I assume that the tyrant does not believe that he is a tyrant.

I don't have a wide-spread experience; I do know that Jack Hyles routinely insulted his staff to the congregation, and that many people who attended there absorbed this habit (bad habit, in my opinion) -- but I have been in several churches in which staff were considered free targets for belittling or insults to the congregation.  What I'm saying is that I think that this practice may be pretty widespread. They just consider it to be "joking" and someone who is offended "doesn't have a sense of humor" or "can't take a joke".

In conflicts like this, it is common that one side may be exaggerating the claims.

For example, a public error does need a public correction, but that could be described as "dressing down" in a staff meeting.  Private errors should be dealt with publicly.

As I stated above, putting down staff to the congregation is certainly not unheard of.

And "disregard for staff family life" could mean anything: "I took a 3 hour lunch to spend time with my wife, and he jumped all over me!"  Is he working them 100 hours a week?  I'm not sure what this means.

In any event, it seems that the Scriptural thing to do is for your son to go to the pastor in humility, without heat, and explain that HE (your son) is offended by getting a public calling out for something he did in private... he should NOT bring up how the pastor treats other staff members, and should have a good spirit about him.

If that doesn't go well, then other staff should go to the pastor and confront him; again, in a good spirit.

Failing that, the staff should go as a group to the deacons.
 
Any church with staff will have some issues.  That's human nature.

This pastor sounds like he needs a "visit" in a dark alley by hooded men who "teach".

When I was on staff, the pastor was a great guy, but that didn't stop his gossip and playing favorites.  That made doing what I was hired to do nearly impossible.

Let the church roll on.
 
praise_yeshua said:
The vast majority of pastors are not men of God. In fact, you need to drop this  "man of God" nonsense. You're not Elijah!!!

Love this!
 
This threads brings back to remembrance the Jack Schaap years.  According to many of the FFF Schaap lost his cool with his staff (even going as far as swearing at them).  They tolerated this behavior.  Why?  I'm sure everyone had their reason, but I dare say some felt like they has status and prestige because they were on staff at FBCH or HAC.  They were willing to listen to and put up with his junk because of this.
 
RAIDER said:
They tolerated this behavior.  Why?  I'm sure everyone had their reason, but I dare say some felt like they has status and prestige because they were on staff at FBCH or HAC.  They were willing to listen to and put up with his junk because of this.

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??
 
IFB X-Files said:

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??
OK I'm a little confused..."we tolerate some of the posters on here"? I think I could be highly offended at a snide remake like that except for the fact that I'm having a pretty good day today. Am I one of those posters that is merely being tolerated? I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize you were the grand pooh-bah of the FFF. Wow...maybe I should bow and kiss your ring.
 
no value said:
IFB X-Files said:

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??
OK I'm a little confused..."we tolerate some of the posters on here"? I think I could be highly offended at a snide remake like that except for the fact that I'm having a pretty good day today. Am I one of those posters that is merely being tolerated? I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize you were the grand pooh-bah of the FFF. Wow...maybe I should bow and kiss your ring.

You must lighten up and learn the poster on the FFF.  IBF X-Files was jesting.  In case you haven't noticed, we like to goof off a bit.  :)
 
Walt said:
praise_yeshua said:
The vast majority of pastors are not men of God. In fact, you need to drop this  "man of God" nonsense. You're not Elijah!!!

Love this!
1 Timothy 6:11 (KJV)
11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV)
17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I guess the 'man of God' thing ended with Timothy...
 
RAIDER said:
no value said:
IFB X-Files said:

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??
OK I'm a little confused..."we tolerate some of the posters on here"? I think I could be highly offended at a snide remake like that except for the fact that I'm having a pretty good day today. Am I one of those posters that is merely being tolerated? I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize you were the grand pooh-bah of the FFF. Wow...maybe I should bow and kiss your ring.

You must lighten up and learn the poster on the FFF.  IBF X-Files was jesting.  In case you haven't noticed, we like to goof off a bit.  :)

Thanks, RAIDER, but I must admit I like the part about kissing my ring.
 
RAIDER said:
no value said:
IFB X-Files said:

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??
OK I'm a little confused..."we tolerate some of the posters on here"? I think I could be highly offended at a snide remake like that except for the fact that I'm having a pretty good day today. Am I one of those posters that is merely being tolerated? I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize you were the grand pooh-bah of the FFF. Wow...maybe I should bow and kiss your ring.

You must lighten up and learn the poster on the FFF.  IBF X-Files was jesting.  In case you haven't noticed, we like to goof off a bit.  :)

Advise taken..thank you.

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.
 
I have had some rather less than pleasing experiences as an assistant pastor.
Probably enough that I don't want to do it again.
 
no value said:
If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

Without knowing it you have perfectly described FBCH under Schaap.
 
16KJV11 said:
Walt said:
praise_yeshua said:
The vast majority of pastors are not men of God. In fact, you need to drop this  "man of God" nonsense. You're not Elijah!!!

Love this!
1 Timothy 6:11 (KJV)
11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV)
17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I guess the 'man of God' thing ended with Timothy...

Two Things.

1. I gave an example of the "man of God" mentality. There are far too many that believe they are just like Elijah or Elisha

2. The phrase expressed to Timothy is one of dedication. Not power. In fact, a better translation would be

"as one dedicated to God"

If you study the life of Timothy, you would know why Paul uses these words toward Timothy and NOT toward any other.

There is no comparison of the work of Elijah and Elisha to the modern role of bishop within the church. As close you can get is the apostolic power ordained upon the Apostles. I hope you're not saying a modern bishop has such power?

 
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