Pastors Mistreating Staff

[praise_yeshua]

This is why we tolerate some of the posters on here.  You deal with it because of the status of being on the FFF!  I mean, where are we to go??

OK I'm a little confused..."we tolerate some of the posters on here"? I think I could be highly offended at a snide remake like that except for the fact that I'm having a pretty good day today. Am I one of those posters that is merely being tolerated? I thought this was an open forum. I didn't realize you were the grand pooh-bah of the FFF. Wow...maybe I should bow and kiss your ring.

You must lighten up and learn the poster on the FFF.  IBF X-Files was jesting.  In case you haven't noticed, we like to goof off a bit. 

Advise taken..thank you.

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

The expectation of success has never been the determinate factor of whether to do what's right.

Sometimes.... doing what's right....... means public ridicule or rejection.

 

[rsc2a]

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

Without knowing it you have perfectly described FBCH under Schaap.

And his predecessor?

 

[Least of These]

Maybe off topic, but here's a visitor's perspective.  I go to church occasionally, typically when there's a music group I want to hear.  When my daughter was still attending Cedarville, the school sent a group to sing at a local church so we went to see them.  Early in the service, the pastor picked up a microphone that wasn't working.  He stopped, said something like "Why isn't this working?  You all had better get it fixed before the next service."  He didn't yell, but was snarky enough to make us uncomfortable.

After that, I had no interest in anything he had to say.  I vaguely remember that he spoke about foster parenting - something I normally would be very interested in - but coming from him, it fell flat.  Not only did I say to myself that I'd never go back to that church, I was reminded of why I don't go at all.

 

[RAIDER]

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

Without knowing it you have perfectly described FBCH under Schaap.

And his predecessor?

Yes, I believe the deacons were "yes men" for Dr. Hyles.

 

[bgwilkinson]

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

Without knowing it you have perfectly described FBCH under Schaap.

And his predecessor?

Yes, I believe the deacons were "yes men" for Dr. Hyles.

Not all, but most were yes men and not interested in critical thinking.

Those who could think for themselves were demonized if they spoke up.

 

[RAIDER]

If I may add to some of the posters comments...regarding speaking with the deacons. Good idea, except in this case, most if anot all of the deacons are the pastor's yes-men. I can only think of two deacons who had the spine to speak up to the pastor. They are no longer deacons at the demand of the pastor.

Same thing with the congregation in general...when you run 600+ I think most congregants may think the pastor is responsible for the large crowds...and who would want to complain about that, in spite of how he treats thos who work for him.

Without knowing it you have perfectly described FBCH under Schaap.

And his predecessor?

Yes, I believe the deacons were "yes men" for Dr. Hyles.

Not all, but most were yes men and not interested in critical thinking.

Those who could think for themselves were demonized if they spoke up.

With some of the stupid moves Schaap made and some of the off-the-wall teaching and preaching that he did, there had to be a room full of blind yes men.

 

[sword]

Good morning all.

I started a thread last week about pastor splitting up marriages. It took a few turns I didn't anticipate, however, the posts were interesting and appreciated. Here's a new topic to consider---Pastors mistreating their staff.

Allow me to briefly explain---my son works on a church staff for a pastor who is a tyrant to his 10-person staff. I've heard many stories (some from my son, some from other staff members) of the humiliating dressing-down of staff members in meetings, the snide, belittling remarks to congregants about his staff, and his absolute disregard for his staff's family life. Its gotten so bad that a male staff member was humiliated in front of his fellow staff members by the pastor for not having children. Truth be told, it was discovered by testing that the man is infertile, but the very fact that the pastor humiliated him in front of others over an extremely personal matter, is (to me) way over the line. This is a private matter between a husband and wife.

There are a lot of other examples, but those few are my most vivid memories. I suspect some will suggest the staff should just quit if they can't buck-up to this dictator. I certainly have suggested this to my son. The truth is--some have applied at other churches for ministry postions, but when the hiring church contacted the tyrant pastor as a reference, he sabotaged the application. And he was even brazen to tell the staff member he put the "kabosh" on their job prospect.

So wadda do? Any takers?

What if the pastor just went missing one day?

I'm in no way suggesting it; I'm just suggesting that's what some might suggest.

 

[subllibrm]

Good morning all.

I started a thread last week about pastor splitting up marriages. It took a few turns I didn't anticipate, however, the posts were interesting and appreciated. Here's a new topic to consider---Pastors mistreating their staff.

Allow me to briefly explain---my son works on a church staff for a pastor who is a tyrant to his 10-person staff. I've heard many stories (some from my son, some from other staff members) of the humiliating dressing-down of staff members in meetings, the snide, belittling remarks to congregants about his staff, and his absolute disregard for his staff's family life. Its gotten so bad that a male staff member was humiliated in front of his fellow staff members by the pastor for not having children. Truth be told, it was discovered by testing that the man is infertile, but the very fact that the pastor humiliated him in front of others over an extremely personal matter, is (to me) way over the line. This is a private matter between a husband and wife.

There are a lot of other examples, but those few are my most vivid memories. I suspect some will suggest the staff should just quit if they can't buck-up to this dictator. I certainly have suggested this to my son. The truth is--some have applied at other churches for ministry postions, but when the hiring church contacted the tyrant pastor as a reference, he sabotaged the application. And he was even brazen to tell the staff member he put the "kabosh" on their job prospect.

So wadda do? Any takers?

What if the pastor just went missing one day?

I'm in no way suggesting it; I'm just suggesting that's what some might suggest.

Someone did mention that the pastor needs "Grace". Maybe they were using it as a euphemism.

 

[no value]

Maybe off topic, but here's a visitor's perspective.  I go to church occasionally, typically when there's a music group I want to hear.  When my daughter was still attending Cedarville, the school sent a group to sing at a local church so we went to see them.  Early in the service, the pastor picked up a microphone that wasn't working.  He stopped, said something like "Why isn't this working?  You all had better get it fixed before the next service."  He didn't yell, but was snarky enough to make us uncomfortable.

After that, I had no interest in anything he had to say.  I vaguely remember that he spoke about foster parenting - something I normally would be very interested in - but coming from him, it fell flat.  Not only did I say to myself that I'd never go back to that church, I was reminded of why I don't go at all.

Thank you for your perspective. There are some similarities. I do not attend the church my son works. I have minimaum contact with his boss the tyrant. However, because of what I know of his abusive treatment of others, I do not trust him about anything. I had an issue recently in which I needed some pastoral advice. Nothing serious, just someone else's perspective. The pastor in question was never on my list to seek any kind of advice.

The way you treat others does speak volumes about your character (or lack thereof) IMO.

 

[fishinnut]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

I would advise No Value's son to find another ministry job elsewhere with God's leading at the first opportunity.

 

[RAIDER]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

I would advise No Value's son to find another ministry job elsewhere with God's leading at the first opportunity.

This sounds like a Jack Hyles story. 

 

[praise_yeshua]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

I would advise No Value's son to find another ministry job elsewhere with God's leading at the first opportunity.

This sounds like a Jack Hyles story. 

Why does everyone want to run?

 

[Bruh]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

I would advise No Value's son to find another ministry job elsewhere with God's leading at the first opportunity.

Good  for you!!

 

[IFB X-Files]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

Wow!  At first I thought I was reading an account by Ray Young!  Until you said you were a Marine.  Ray couldn't handle that, I'm sure.

Just kidding.  Great story!  Where did you go after that?

 

[no value]

I was an assistant pastor in a church right out of Bible college that was pastored by an staunch IFB but not a HACker. I was asked to lead the SS, soul-winning, bus & youth ministries. Growth drastically increased in each ministry area. Six months into it the pastor got seriously sick & bedridden for 6 weeks. He asked me to preach all the services. I also became inundated with outside preaching engagements.

Unbeknownst to me members were buying the sermon tapes of my preaching in crazy numbers & this was somehow reported to the pastor. As soon as he got back to work he put his 10 years of sermon tapes on a super sale but only a few tapes sold. It turned into a David & Saul situation. I was then given the job of painting the interior of all the SS rooms & hallways, as well as mowing all the grounds & many more projects. I knocked out all these projects & the other ministries steadily increased.

If he had had Saul's javelin I'm sure the pastor would have used it like Saul did when "David avoided out of his presence." Instead he just got madder & madder toward me. What he didn't realize was I had 4 years of Marine Corps experience & he didn't get half as mad as any of my DI's or Gunnys had been at times. But he made life there, for someone who just was just all out for serving Jesus rather intolerable. He finally went after my wife.........once. That's when I told him he'd crossed my lines & he didn't get that option. He asked me to leave. I did.

I would advise No Value's son to find another ministry job elsewhere with God's leading at the first opportunity.

This sounds like a Jack Hyles story. 

Thank you brother for you storuy and insight.

My wife and I have both suggested our son leave. He said he feels called in his particular ministry (which I can appreciate). He and his wife just bought a house, so he feels a little trapped. He somehow tolerates the abuse. He's a better man than I...I would have boxed the pastors ears knowing I'd be fired.

I know we all have our levels of toleration. Some can take things longer than others. If my son called me to say he had gotten fired because he stood up to his bully boss, I'd say Praise the Lord and Atta Boy.

 

[bgwilkinson]

Here is a song we sang every time we had an Old Fashioned Service.

Bro. Hyles did not like it when we got to kicking out the preacher, but Ray Boardway sure did, so we sang it anyway.

Let the Church Roll On.

There’s a sinner in the church, (Oh my Lord)
And he won’t do right, (Oh my Lord)
Oh what’cha gonna do (Get him down on his knees)
And let the church roll on

Chorus
Let the church roll on, (Oh my Lord)
Let the church roll on, (Oh my Lord)
Let the church roll on (Oh my Lord)
Let the church roll on

There’s a deacon in the church, (Oh my Lord)
And he won’t do right, (Oh my Lord)
Oh what’cha gonna do (Take his name off the roll)
And let the church roll on

There’s a preacher in the church, (Oh my Lord)
And he won’t do right, (Oh my Lord)
Oh what’cha gonna do (Kick him out, kick him out)
And let the church roll on

There’s a drunkard in the church, (Oh my Lord)
And he won’t do right, (Oh my Lord)
Oh what’cha gonna do (Take his liquor, throw it out)
And let the church roll on


We sure did love doing this one. Notice we did not throw out the drunkard, only his liquor.
When we got to the preacher the men would shout "Kick him out, kick him out".
It's the only time we had the courage to say anything.

 

[Walt]

Maybe off topic, but here's a visitor's perspective.  I go to church occasionally, typically when there's a music group I want to hear.  When my daughter was still attending Cedarville, the school sent a group to sing at a local church so we went to see them.  Early in the service, the pastor picked up a microphone that wasn't working.  He stopped, said something like "Why isn't this working?  You all had better get it fixed before the next service."  He didn't yell, but was snarky enough to make us uncomfortable.

After that, I had no interest in anything he had to say.  I vaguely remember that he spoke about foster parenting - something I normally would be very interested in - but coming from him, it fell flat.  Not only did I say to myself that I'd never go back to that church, I was reminded of why I don't go at all.

Noted.

Clearly, I don't know the church and the circumstances; in fact, as a visitor, you don't know the circumstances, either.  Perhaps there is someone whose job is to verify that every microphone is working, and that person failed to do his job. Most people would be upset in such a circumstance.  (It could be).

However, in many churches, sadly, the pastor acts like he is the CEO of a billion dollar corporation, and that everyone exists to serve him, so he flies into tantrums.

But it's a great lesson that we need to think about what we say, because it can be so easily misunderstood.

 

[Sherryh]

We have never experienced any of these things...I've heard about pastors mistreating their staff and I would advised them to leave and find a place that love people. My friend had a situation where the pastor was given a gift and he told the people it wasn't enough....my friend is no longer in that church.  My first thought was who would do that but it really happened.

 

[prophet]

All saved people, men and women alike, are men and women of God, believer priests. No one is more equal than the others.

A pastor is no more a man of God than the people in the congregation.

Many pastors do have a problem with the Moses model. It is not for the New Testament called out assembly.

This pastor must not be a convinced Baptist. My sympathies.

Don't ever hire a pastor who is not a convinced Baptist.

I agree with your assessment, and disagree with modern "Baptists".

Haklo

 

[prophet]

The vast majority of pastors are not men of God. In fact, you need to drop this  "man of God" nonsense. You're not Elijah!!!

Love this!

1 Timothy 6:11 (KJV)
11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV)
17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I guess the 'man of God' thing ended with Timothy...

I'm guessing that you think Timothy was in charge of a church?

Haklo