Racial Dating Policies at Bible Colleges

Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Recovering IFB said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Reformed Guy said:
Given that there's a few thousand other options for college in the U.S.- nearly all of which libertinism can be practiced with abandon- I wouldn't get my knickers in a bunch over a handful that actually have some rules.

If you don't like the rules, don't go there.

You miss the point of the thread...it's not about what it's about, it's a bash the fundys thread.
Declare yourself righteously indignant and move on..... :D
Feeling convicted?
No, it's about them hiding behind "parental consent" to mask their racism. But hey, it's ok to date high school girls without parental consent, right?

Project much?  ;)
And parental consent is not confined to fundamentalist schools.
We had a similar rule at Liberty when I was there, I believe...don't know what it is now.
And the SBC college my youngest daughter attended required parental consent for dating of any kind!

But it's ok to date high school girls right? But need mommy and daddy's permission to date out of race? Even though they are adults. You can die for country, but get parents permission to date a person of color? Got it  ;D

What?
I'm not arguing any of that, Einstein!

If they're in the army, they probably don't need anyone's permission to date or hire a prostitute if they want.
I'm saying that it is not unreasonable for a Bible College to require parental consent for freshmen to date. IMO!
If you don't agree, don't send your kids there.
No, your protecting their choice to hide behind parental consent to mask their fascist belief.
And beleive me, I definatly won't be sending my kids there.
I'm really glad to see that you stopped the name calling, your congregation must be so proud to call you Pastor

Playing the Pastor card AND the race card.....brilliant and original.
;D
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Playing the Pastor card AND the race card.....brilliant and original.
;D
Snarkiness aside, I at least have to hand it to you, at least you didn't have to resort to name calling
 
Ransom said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
It means no
Not sure where this one is headed.

It wasn't a hard question, and it wasn't a trick question.

What if a Crown student is still dating his high-school sweetheart when he leaves for college? Does that fit the definition of dating someone who is "not a Crown College student"? Is he breaking the rules unless he breaks it off with her?
I didn't mean where were you headed, I actually meant I was not sure where Crown was headed.
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
As to 18 year olds being responsible adults...well in my experience that's laughable!

Whether they are responsible or not, they are adults and should be able to make their own choices, whether they be mistakes or not.

My kids know that once they graduate high school, they are on their own. We will house and feed them as long as they remain in college but every other bill they have will be theirs to pay, including all college tuition/expenses.

My son is 20 and decided he wanted to drop second semester of this school year because of a job promotion he wanted to master. I didn't have to ask him to leave because he decided to move out on his own before dropping the semester. Now he is fully supporting himself and gladly so.

My daughter is 18 and in college and living at home. She says she wants to get an apartment closer to the campus next fall semester. She is free to go and if she wants to move in with a guy, that will be on her. (She is not that type of girl, BTW. :) ) They have been ingrained with a moral code and have been making most of their decisions/consequences since they began their teen years.

As a parent, if they haven't grown enough to make ALL their decisions by 18, even if they may make some wrong ones, I have failed as a parent.

That's wonderful.

Not at all my point. They could still make some serious errors in judgement. I'd be foolish to think otherwise. My point is that we did all the training in their first 18 years. Then it was time to let go completely and be there for them with words of wisdom, encouragement, support as needed to better them in their decision making (and character) and let them make those choices, even if I would completely disagree with them. If they choose to ignore our advice, God through time will teach them. It is out of my hands.

Seems to have worked with the first two but there are two more who might eventually change my opinion over the next 5 years. :)

 
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.
[/quote]

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.

 
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.
People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?

Smellin tried to use information about the Bar and Bat Mitzvah's as evidence, but the practice was started by Rabbi's, not the scripture.
The modern method of celebrating becoming a bar mitzvah did not exist in the time of the Hebrew Bible, Mishnah or Talmud. Passages in the books of Exodus and Numbers note the age of majority for army service as twenty.[27] The term "bar mitzvah" appears first in the Talmud, the codification of the Jewish oral Torah compiled in the early first millennium of the common era, to connote "an [agent] who is subject to the law,"[28] and the age of thirteen is also mentioned in the Mishnah as the time one is obligated to observe the Torah's commandments: "At five years old a person should study the Scriptures, at ten years for the Mishnah, at 13 for the commandments . . ."[29][30] The Talmud gives 13 as the age at which a boy's vows are legally binding, and states that this is a result of his being a "man," as required in Numbers 6:2.[31] The term "bar mitzvah", in the sense it is now used,[when?] cannot be clearly traced earlier than the 14th century, the older rabbinical term being "gadol" (adult) or "bar 'onshin" (legally responsible for own misdoings).[3] Many sources indicate that the ceremonial observation of a bar mitzvah developed in the Middle Ages,[30][32] however, there are extensive earlier references to thirteen as the age of majority with respect to following the commandments of the Torah, as well as Talmudic references to observing this rite of passage with a religious ceremony, including:
Samuel ha'Katan, at the close of the first century, in the Baraita attached to Abot v. 21 (see Machzor Vitry) the completion of the thirteenth year as the age for the commandments ("mitzvot"); and the commentary to the passage refers to Levi, the son of Jacob, who, at thirteen, is called "ish" (man; Gen. xxxiv. 25).
Simon Tzemach Duran, in his "Magen Abot" to the Baraita, quotes a Midrash interpreting the Hebrew word ("this") in Isa. xliii. 21—"This people have I formed for myself, they shall pronounce [ A. V. "set forth"] my praise"—as referring by its numerical value to those that have reached the age of 13. This seems to imply that, at the time of the composition of the Midrash the bar mitzvah publicly pronounced a benediction on the occasion of his entrance upon maturity.
The Midrash Hashkem (see Grünhut's "Sefer ha'Likkutim", i. 3a): "The heathen when he begets a son consecrates him to idolatrous practises; the Israelite has his son circumcised and the rite of 'pidyon haben' performed; and as soon as he becomes of age he brings him into the synagogue and school ('beit ha'knesset' and 'beit ha'midrash') in order that he may praise the name of God, reciting the 'Brachu' (Benediction) preceding the reading from the Law."
Masseket Soferim xviii. 5 makes matters even more explicit: "In Jerusalem they are accustomed to initiate their children to fast on the Day of Atonement, a year or two before their maturity; and then, when the age has arrived, to bring the Bar Mitzvah before the priest or elder for blessing, encouragement, and prayer, that he may be granted a portion in the Law and in the doing of good works. Whosoever is of superiority in the town is expected to pray for him as he bows down to him to receive his blessing."
The Midrash (Gen. R. lxiii.), which, in commenting upon the passage (Gen. xxv. 27), "and the boys grew," says: "Up to thirteen years Esau and Jacob went together to the primary school and back home; after the thirteen years were over, the one went to the beit ha'midrash for the study of the Law, the other to the house of idols. With reference to this, Rabbi Eleazar remarks, 'Until the thirteenth year it is the father's duty to train his boy; after this he must say: "Blessed be He who has taken from me the responsibility [the punishment] for this boy!"" "Why is the evil desire (yetzer hara) personified as the great king? (Eccl. ix. 14). Because it is thirteen years older than the good desire (yetzer hatob)." That is to say, the latter comes only with the initiation into duty (Ab. R. N., A. xvi., B. xxx.; Midr. Teh. ix. 2; Eccl. R. ix. 15).
According to Pirke R. El. xxvi., Abraham rejected the idolatry of his father and became a worshiper of God when he was thirteen years old.[3]
"It is a mitzvah for a person to make a meal on the day his son becomes Bar Mitzvah as on the day he enters the wedding canopy." (Orach Chayim 225:2, Magen Avraham 4)

Lets add those reference for fun.
Numbers 6:2  Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto the LORD:
So, from this verse we get 13. Huh. I missed it.

Genesis 34:25  And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
Ok, missed it again

Isaiah 43:21  This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
I am still missing it.

Genesis 25:27  And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Huh. 13. Still can't see it.

Ecclesiastes 9:14  There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
Wow, I am really missing it here.

So it would appear the "Rabbincal" writings have not much value in interpretation.
 
Ransom said:
Quick comments about the rest of these rules:

Young men may call for their dates 30 minutes before church services begin.

Young men are not to call for their dates at the dormitory before Sunday School.

Dating couples are not to loiter after the church services in the auditorium, college building, academy, or near the dormitories.

OK, I don't exactly get these three rules.  The first two seem needlessly formal (does the first mean no more than 30 minutes prior, or no less than?)  And why the haste to get people away from the buildings?

It's like the Powers That Be are saying, "OK, if you want to date, you can see each other at church. . . . OK, you've had your fun, you crazy kids, now get out."

There are no dating privileges for soul-winning or church ministries.

Not sure what this even means. If you see each other while on church ministry business, it doesn't count as a date?

Ladies are not permitted to ride in a car with men unless permission has been granted by the Administration.

Fair enough.

Couples are not to be together without prior administrative approval on Saturdays before lunch or on Sunday afternoons.

Why not? Since it's the weekend, I assume it's free time. (Or not-so-free time, by the look of it.)

On college-wide activities, dating couples must remain in the presence of a third person at all times.

Fair enough.

Students are not allowed to date Temple Baptist Academy students prior to their junior or senior year in high school.

Fair enough.

Students who serve in the youth ministry of Temple Baptist Church are not allowed to date teens in that youth group.

Not only a good rule, but one that could be taken farther. If you are old and mature enough to be in a position of leadership in a youth ministry, you probably shouldn't be dating any youth, whether in or out fo your particular group. That's just creepy.

Interracial dating must be approved in writing and verbally by the parents of both students.


This satanic idiocy has already been adequately discussed.


Dorm students my not date an off-campus student or someone who is not a Crown College student.

So am I allowed to still have a girl back home, or will she be receiving an official Dear John letter on school letterhead?

Pretty ridiculous, huh?

Here is the first page of Crown's Dating Policy. I apologize for not posting it in the OP, but I was focusing on the interracial dating restrictions, but now realize this page is also relevant.

dating1-e1325597125106.jpg


Note the description of what constitutes a date.

This means a white person could not even be friends with an African-American of the opposite gender. Huge restriction on conversations. So both parents would have to approve (writing and verbally) before they could talk about a class they both are taking or the sermon they just heard while standing in public place.

They can't even sit next to each other in church?

This is an insane amount of control being used to prevent relationships between races.

 
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?
 
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?

Maybe it's just the idiocy of sola Scriptura extremus?
 
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?
One tradition has Joseph as 95 and Mary as 14. Is that the tradition you refer to?
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?
One tradition has Joseph as 95 and Mary as 14. Is that the tradition you refer to?

Well.. I think you're exaggerating but she certainly wasn't legal drinking age and he wasn't just starting to grow hair under his arms.

Are advocating for both being legal drinking age or above?
 
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?
One tradition has Joseph as 95 and Mary as 14. Is that the tradition you refer to?

Well.. I think you're exaggerating but she certainly wasn't legal drinking age and he wasn't just starting to grow hair under his arms.

Are advocating for both being legal drinking age or above?
So, the scriptures don't tell us, pretty hard for us to be dogmatic, but, consistently, yes.
You propose to have evidence to the contrary or just an opinion equally as valid and simultaneously invalid as mine?
 
It boils down to being unable to think outside the box more than racism. Everyone is expected to marry someone in their church and that person is always a white. It is expected and young folks are pushed into dating someone that fits that mold. No one can fathom anything different.

I remember seeing a former member of my church who is a staunch fundy. He asked me, "What's it like to be married to one of them". I told him heaven on earth with a cherry on top. He began to tell me how his mom and dad are against such a thing. Funny he is like 45 and has never married and rarely has had a date. He must still be waiting for that lily white Viking woman to hit him over the head and drag him off to her cave.

Their are 7.2 billion people on this earth. Why anyone would limit themselves to only dating and marrying someone across the pew from them or only becasue they are same race is beyond me.
 
As far as 18 not being an adult? That is absurd. I was out of my parent's house a week before I turned 18. I owned my first house by the time I was 20, my second house at 23 and a dozen rental properties by 28 as well as owning my own business. I am truly not trying to be rude, but if your children are still babies at 18, then you probably need to revisit your techniques at preparing them for adulthood.
 
ItinerantPreacher said:
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
praise_yeshua said:
ItinerantPreacher said:
AmazedbyGrace said:
As long as the world validates it by popular vote, it must be so.

Age of majority, salvation, homosexuality.

People younger than 18 were getting married in biblical times, so I do not see where it prohibits practically every culture on this planet from recognizing 18 year olds as adults.

Just because you do not approve does not make this untrue.

A lot of our military is made up of 18+ teenagers who have made the adult decision to enlist. Same for many other countries.
Care to show that from the scriptures?


Surely you know enough to know the traditional age of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, at the time she was espoused to Joseph. Are you just playing proof games?
One tradition has Joseph as 95 and Mary as 14. Is that the tradition you refer to?

Well.. I think you're exaggerating but she certainly wasn't legal drinking age and he wasn't just starting to grow hair under his arms.

Are advocating for both being legal drinking age or above?
So, the scriptures don't tell us, pretty hard for us to be dogmatic, but, consistently, yes.
You propose to have evidence to the contrary or just an opinion equally as valid and simultaneously invalid as mine?
Rabbanical evidence is overwhelming. The reason rsc2a mentioned extreme Sola Scriptura.
 
Historical data tells us it was common for people under 18 to marry back then. It was also common in Europe and several generations back in America. 16 year olds can still legally marry in Georgia - without parental permission.

Is it wise to marry that young? No.

I find your denial that 18 year olds are adults silly. No matter how much you protest they are still adults.

Again, the IFBx policy of treating young adults like children who need to be micromanaged is probably at fault for extending their immaturity.

Still, there is no excuse for racist policies.
 
When my husband was in college he was not allowed to get married.  It was a college rule.  He agreed to attend that college and his parents agreed he should go there. 
 
In every generation, people mature at their own pace....it say all 18 year olds magically become responsible adults is ludicrous. It is true that past generations tended to take on marriage and families at younger ages than they do now...many in my parents generation tended to marry in their teens....today, not so much.

Today, 25 is the new 17.
In our state, the legal drinking age is 21.


Having said that, racism is sin. Period.
Requiring parental permission for 18 year old college freshmen to date is not unreasonable!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
As to 18 year olds being responsible adults...well in my experience that's laughable!

Whether they are responsible or not, they are adults and should be able to make their own choices, whether they be mistakes or not.

My kids know that once they graduate high school, they are on their own. We will house and feed them as long as they remain in college but every other bill they have will be theirs to pay, including all college tuition/expenses.

My son is 20 and decided he wanted to drop second semester of this school year because of a job promotion he wanted to master. I didn't have to ask him to leave because he decided to move out on his own before dropping the semester. Now he is fully supporting himself and gladly so.

My daughter is 18 and in college and living at home. She says she wants to get an apartment closer to the campus next fall semester. She is free to go and if she wants to move in with a guy, that will be on her. (She is not that type of girl, BTW. :) ) They have been ingrained with a moral code and have been making most of their decisions/consequences since they began their teen years.

As a parent, if they haven't grown enough to make ALL their decisions by 18, even if they may make some wrong ones, I have failed as a parent.

That's wonderful.

For the record, that was not sarcasm!
It was meant as a compliment!
 
Tarheel Baptist said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
Smellin Coffee said:
Tarheel Baptist said:
As to 18 year olds being responsible adults...well in my experience that's laughable!

Whether they are responsible or not, they are adults and should be able to make their own choices, whether they be mistakes or not.

My kids know that once they graduate high school, they are on their own. We will house and feed them as long as they remain in college but every other bill they have will be theirs to pay, including all college tuition/expenses.

My son is 20 and decided he wanted to drop second semester of this school year because of a job promotion he wanted to master. I didn't have to ask him to leave because he decided to move out on his own before dropping the semester. Now he is fully supporting himself and gladly so.

My daughter is 18 and in college and living at home. She says she wants to get an apartment closer to the campus next fall semester. She is free to go and if she wants to move in with a guy, that will be on her. (She is not that type of girl, BTW. :) ) They have been ingrained with a moral code and have been making most of their decisions/consequences since they began their teen years.

As a parent, if they haven't grown enough to make ALL their decisions by 18, even if they may make some wrong ones, I have failed as a parent.

That's wonderful.

For the record, that was not sarcasm!
It was meant as a compliment!

Thanks, but I didn't mean to post that as bragging because that wasn't my intent. I wasn't looking for a pat on the back though it is appreciated anyway.

I guess the point of personal ramblings is that my wife and I believe that at 18, our kids would make all their own decisions and we stuck to it. Thus far, we haven't been burned by it. Oh, and if my kids happen to turn out right, it would be despite my parenting skills and huge lack thereof. It will be because of God's grace.
 
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