FSSL said:
Our agreement is here: "Never read NT concepts back into the OT."
Our difference is that I see, in the OT, salvation concepts like "adoption," "redemption," "regeneration," "remission," "justification."
I agree, however, as I have maintained...it was all prophesied and remained as promise until it began to be bestowed.
Consider:
Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)
1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
A primary thrust of Romans 9-11 is Israel's state in regards to the bringing in of the New Covenant.
They are lost and in need of salvation:
Romans 11:22-27
King James Version (KJV)
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
We have received the promises of God through relationship with Him through the New Covenant. Israel, as a Nation, will also receive the Promised Deliverer. This will occur in the Tribulation and "all Israel shall be saved" at that point because all unbelievers will perish, not only during the Tribulation, but those (unbelievers) who survive will perish at the Sheep and Goat Judgment described in Matthew 25.
Galatians 4
King James Version (KJV)
1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
We see in this statement the same things we have already been discussing: a point in time when Christ came to bestow the promises of God, a distinction between the Age of Law and the abrogation of the Law, redemption of those who were under Law (which applies to previous Ages as well), and the eternal indwelling of Christ, which is the Mystery not revealed to the world in past Ages.
Not even to the Saints.
That is when the promise of adoption began, FSSL. Just as John writes,,,
John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
One can only be a child of God if they are born of God, which is the same concept seen in being born again, born from above, born of water and Spirit.
That is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost which the disciples received on the Day of Pentecost, when they were immersed into God.
1 John 3
King James Version (KJV)
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
FSSL said:
However, the OT uses different words.
So show me these concepts in the Hebrew where it is not Promise and Prophecy in view. I have already asked for Biblical support.
The clearest promise of the New Birth is seen here...
Ezekiel 36:24-27
King James Version (KJV)
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
...and it is a promise. It is Prophecy of what is going to happen, just as Christ's teaching in John 14 and 16 are prophecy.
This is what Christ is speaking of here:
Acts 1:4-5
King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
What, if not the promise of the Spirit, could we possibly think this is speaking about? What else could the Lord be referring to that He had taught them?
But thankfully He defines what He means in v.5.
FSSL said:
I believe the synonyms and differences between Hebrew and Greek are causing you to be too narrow, semantically.
Not at all, for I have not denied that the Gospel of Christ, the Promises of God, and the concepts concerning salvation in Christ were taught in the Hebrew Scriptures. All I am saying is that the revelation and understanding afforded us under New Covenant conditions not only explain what they meant, but contribute to them. For example, the Hebrew Scriptures taught the resurrection of the dead, but, they did not reveal the Mystery of the Gospel. They taught of Messiah, but they did not reveal that He would die for the sins of men and establish a spiritual Kingdom, rather than the physical Kingdom they longed for. Israel will get that Kingdom but not until they are born again.
FSSL said:
As I clarified in the last post, I have never argued "no eternal remission of sins," but "no eternal remission of sins in the lifetime of the Old Testament Saint. Again, that distinction is critical. They were redeemed retroactively when Christ died on the Cross to redeem the transgressions that were under the Law.
And I was taken to Post #26 which didn't mention remission of sins, are you sure that is the post you are thinking of?
God bless.