Ruckman's Failed Prediction - "The Year 2000 is the limit for the Advent"

Until he does I'm still going to consider him a horrible person.

So you've changed your criticism from he can't be a "pretty nice guy" to now he's a "horrible person".

You may be right, and if so, he'd fit right in here on the FFF. We've plenty of "horrible" people here.
 
For the record, I wish nothing but the best for Jack Schaap.

His future, as with all of us, is up to him.
 
Antinominanism and opposition to the need for repentance are distinguishing characteristics of Dead Petey and his followers, but this didn't start with Dead Petey. Such views have been circulating among dispensationalists and Plymouth Brethren from the beginning.

In 1872, Thomas Croskery of Ireland published this evaluation of the Plymouth Brethren in the Princeton Review, January, 1872, pp. 49-50, accusing them of believing: "That the moral law is of no use at all to believers, that it is no rule for believers to walk by, that all saints have the right of ministry, that the doctrine of repentance is a soul-destroying doctrine, that believers are justified from eternity, that God's children are not to pray for the pardon of their sins, that sanctification is imputed and supersedes all personal and progressive holiness, that believers have nothing to do in the way of keeping themselves from sin for God must look to them if He will."

In 1879 Croskery further observed, "We must now notice the tendency of Brethrenite doctrine. It clearly tends to immorality. Mr. Kelly says, 'I am no longer, as a Christian man, having to do with the responsibility that attaches to moral men, but are passed now into a new state, even while I am in the world.'. . . The Rev. Frederick Whitfield, incumbent of Kirby Ravensworth, Yorkshire, who worshipped 12 years with the Brethren, says, 'I have omitted altogether touching on one point - the flagrant immoralities among the Plymouth Brethren. My personal knowledge, and information from those amongst them, supply me with some of the most shocking cases, so shocking that I cannot bring myself to give them publicity." (From "Plymouth-Brethrenism: A Refutation of the Principles and Doctrines)"

So don't be surprised when dispensationalists and Ruckman worshippers keep trotting out old King David to cover up for preachers who are caught messing with the church secretary or the bus kids. And don't send your kids to one of those churches that teach that "repentance is not for today."

As a former member of a Ruckmanite church, here is my advice: "Friends don't let friends go to a Ruckmanite church."
 
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So you've changed your criticism from he can't be a "pretty nice guy" to now he's a "horrible person".

You may be right, and if so, he'd fit right in here on the FFF. We've plenty of "horrible" people here.

Not really changing my criticism. I was making the point that it would be absurd to consider him "a pretty nice guy" as an unrepentant child molester. I never really stated what he was other than not "a pretty nice guy". Most people outside of the IFB world would likely have strong feelings toward one who committed the crimes he did. I don't think you would be as indifferent had he done this to someone close to you. Anyway I hope he repents and gets right with God.
 
Not really changing my criticism. I was making the point that it would be absurd to consider him "a pretty nice guy" as an unrepentant child molester.

So now you know his "repentance level"?

I don't have any idea, but I wouldn't claim he hasn't repented.

May I suggest you pick a new hobby as this one's not working out well for you.
 
So now you know his "repentance level"?

I don't have any idea, but I wouldn't claim he hasn't repented.

May I suggest you pick a new hobby as this one's not working out well for you.

You like to read what is not there don't you. Is there some chance that he repented and changed course without announcing it to the world? Yes, but I'm not going to assume that. Interestingly enough if he did he would likely be talking about what a horrible person he had been as well. Read Psalm 51 David did after being convicted of his sin. Speaking of choosing a new hobby how about one that does not involve being an apologist for child molesters?

So if it is the assuming that bothers you. Would you be in agreement with the statement "Schaap is, if he has not repented, a horrible person"
 
You like to read what is not there don't you. Is there some chance that he repented and changed course without announcing it to the world? Yes, but I'm not going to assume that. Interestingly enough if he did he would likely be talking about what a horrible person he had been as well. Read Psalm 51 David did after being convicted of his sin. Speaking of choosing a new hobby how about one that does not involve being an apologist for child molesters?

So if it is the assuming that bothers you. Would you be in agreement with the statement "Schaap is, if he has not repented, a horrible person"
Schaap has a public forum? Where is it? Now you're telling us what he "talks about" or doesn't "talk about". How do you know these things?

Schaap could have repented and still be a horrible person. I have no idea nor do I care, except that I want the best for him and you. I even want the best for Tarheel and Smellin'. (Ransom....well...)
 
Schaap has a public forum? Where is it? Now you're telling us what he "talks about" or doesn't "talk about". How do you know these things?

Schaap could have repented and still be a horrible person. I have no idea nor do I care, except that I want the best for him and you. I even want the best for Tarheel and Smellin'. (Ransom....well...)

Never said he had a public forum - you must have grabbed that from crazy land.

...likely

That was the operative word there. Based on the actions/communication of King David and others who had fallen into sin and been restored the general way it seems to work is the individual would agree with God that what they had done horrible things but was turning from those horrible things.

I've heard there were some hardcore Schaap supporters around but you are the first one I met.
 
They do love him, don't they? They have a fixation on anything "Ruckman".

Yet, you can’t resist the notion to defend him at every turn.
I‘m pretty much ok knowing Ruckman was a racist loon...it appears he was right less often than a stopped clock.
Thank the Lord you have Macgruder Mctavish Doughboy Dundee to fall back on...
 
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I've heard there were some hardcore Schaap supporters around but you are the first one I met.

I want the best for Schaap so I'm a "hardcore supporter". Got it. Jesus also wants the best for Schaap. I think I like being a "hardcore supporter" as that puts me in some pretty good company.

You scorners line up with someone else, I think.

I had Schaap for a few classes at HAC. He was OK. A little cocky and arrogant. So were other staff. No big deal. He's a sinner, just like everyone else. (Ransom....well....)
 
"I don't know if his wives were even faithful"

Doesn't really matter. Perhaps you can claim him to be Bible scholar but he he fails the pastor test on the basis of have a number of wives greater than 1.

I thought we settled this. Yes it does. If you isolate pastors from the Biblical grounds for divorce, you must argue in defense of the notion that every pastor in history past, present, and future who has a wife who cheated on them must be forced to stay with that wife for the rest of his life. You cannot avoid this if you take your position. I disagree. I believe whoever it is, pastor or non-pastor, if they have a wife who cheats on them they are allowed to divorce her.

Also, the verse says he must be "the husband of one wife". He was. He was not married to 2 wives at a time, he was married to 1 and then (you don't know for certain, it's not really your business) if his wife either cheated or lost her faith, that is grounds to let her depart or divorce her biblically. Then, (you don't know for certain, it's not really your business) if his wife failed faithful, he afterward became the husband of one wife with his next wife. And repeat a final time. Ruckman was never the husband of more than one wife at a time, neither the does Bible specify 1 wife TOTAL to conclude a man cannot be remarried after divorcing an unfaithful wife.

You are wrong, and the longer you avoid the above 2 arguments, the more it proves it. Study logic.


1. Racist views
2. Admitted to be abusive to his wife (maybe he's not the innocent victim he's made out to be in his divorces?)
3. Taught speculation as Biblical truth
4. Crazy views of KJV being more inspired than the original manuscripts

Let me be unbiased and extremely generous to you all-or-nothing, black-and-white, us-versus-everyone-who-looks-slightly-different critics (unlike some amateurs in this forum are). First of all, I'm not a Ruckmanite. I simply use sound logic and reasoning in cohesion with a complete understanding of the various doctrinal camps to place Ruckman on a fair scale doctrinally (King David committed adultery and murdered the woman's husband, I'm sure you've read his Psalms and call them scripture: doctrine > a man's sinful old man). Even if we give you all 4 of these points (and some of them are too generalized to be accurate) it wouldn't change the fact that Ruckman was right on incredibly important things that had a major impact on what I believe is the final leg of Dispensationalism: UGC.

Ruckman took a balanced view in between Mid-Acts Dispensationalists (often referred to as "Hypers") and Classical Dispensationalists. In UGC's view, he was correct in identifying Tribulational application for the book of Hebrews in particular, which is something we do believe Classical Dispens got wrong: even the most highly regarded Classic Dispen Seminary in the world: Dallas Theological Seminary (the late Dr. Ryrie) has 4 different interpretations of difficult passages in Hebrews because they did not rightly divide it like Ruckman. Hypers overdivided entire books in the General Epistle line outside the Pauline Epistles away from the church, some of them even dividing Paul's prison epistles.

And in case you didn't know: Mid-Acts guys believe in faith-works for the Tribulation as well. Stam, Bullinger, etc. etc. Herp derp. Anyone who attributes this to Ruckman is an unlearned amateur. UGC actually takes the most balanced AND accurate position that is in between Classic Dispens and Ruckman Dispens (so even further back toward Classical in the other direction from Hyper, while still understanding Hypers and especially Ruckman were not wrong on EVERYTHING; there's a saying: when two intelligent people disagree, the answer can sometimes be found somewhere in the middle: in this case it happened to be true).

UGC will be revealing Complete Dispensationalism soon: we believe Ruckman and Mid-Acts were partially right and partially wrong in their definition of faith-works for the Trib.
 
I thought we settled this. Yes it does. If you isolate pastors from the Biblical grounds for divorce, you must argue in defense of the notion that every pastor in history past, present, and future who has a wife who cheated on them must be forced to stay with that wife for the rest of his life. You cannot avoid this if you take your position. I disagree. I believe whoever it is, pastor or non-pastor, if they have a wife who cheats on them they are allowed to divorce her.

Also, the verse says he must be "the husband of one wife". He was. He was not married to 2 wives at a time, he was married to 1 and then (you don't know for certain, it's not really your business) if his wife either cheated or lost her faith, that is grounds to let her depart or divorce her biblically. Then, (you don't know for certain, it's not really your business) if his wife failed faithful, he afterward became the husband of one wife with his next wife. And repeat a final time. Ruckman was never the husband of more than one wife at a time, neither the does Bible specify 1 wife TOTAL to conclude a man cannot be remarried after divorcing an unfaithful wife.

You are wrong, and the longer you avoid the above 2 arguments, the more it proves it. Study logic.

I'm not avoiding anything. I simply believe the Bible on this point. If the standard was to just meet the standard all Christians were to meet why call it out specifically as a qualification to be a pastor? Again it does not say one wife at a time, but one in total-you can try to make the verse fit the divorce happy age if you like but it says what is says.
 
I'm not avoiding anything. I simply believe the Bible on this point. If the standard was to just meet the standard all Christians were to meet why call it out specifically as a qualification to be a pastor? Again it does not say one wife at a time, but one in total-you can try to make the verse fit the divorce happy age if you like but it says what is says.
You are not believing the Bible on this point. You are ignoring what the Bible says on divorce and isolating unto yourself an interpretation of what you desire the requirements for pastor to be on the matter: the Bible does not say 1 wife total, it says 1 wife and allows for divorce of that wife in which case the faithful partner can certainly remarry as long as it's to 1 wife. You have become your own private Hyperdispensationalist, dividing passages unto yourself. Far worse than Ruckman.

You might have the most successful marriage in the world, but I'd rather listen to the wisdom of Solomon than you:

"How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?" -Prov. 1:22
 
Can you elaborate on how you can tell it means one in total rather than one at a time?
No one REALLY believes it means "only one wife" because no one would complain if a pastor's wife died and he remarried. Everyone knows death breaks a marriage. Divorce does the same. Even the lost know a divorced/remarried man only has one wife.

The issue in the first century wasn't divorce, it was having more than one wife.
 
Can you elaborate on how you can tell it means one in total rather than one at a time?

Matthew 19:7-9 gives some guidance on Gods opinion of divorce. Polygamy didn't seem to be a big issue in the NT church so there would be little reason to put in prohibition of polygamy. And if you took "husband of one wife" to mean one at a time.
 
No one REALLY believes it means "only one wife" because no one would complain if a pastor's wife died and he remarried. Everyone knows death breaks a marriage. Divorce does the same. Even the lost know a divorced/remarried man only has one wife.

The issue in the first century wasn't divorce, it was having more than one wife.

Well, with divorce you can create almost the same thing as polygamy. Drop off certificate of divorce to the wife swing by interest #2 with marriage certificate. Once tired with #2 reverse process and return to #1. Requiring a pastor to not be divorced traditionally was not a controversial idea in the church.
 
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